In the season one finale, Wawa Gatheru, founder and executive director of Black Girl Environmentalist, shares her journey into environmental justice work and activism. We discuss ecowomanist theory and the role of black women in the climate movement. We also explore the importance of intergenerational knowledge sharing in climate justice movement building and how we can learn from the wisdom of our elders and ancestors. Wawa shares the important programs and solutions that her organization Black Girl Environmentalist offers to support and uplift black women in climate.
In the season one finale, Wawa Gatheru, founder and executive director of Black Girl Environmentalist, shares her journey into environmental justice work and activism. We discuss ecowomanist theory and the role of black women in the climate movement. We also explore the importance of intergenerational knowledge sharing in climate justice movement building and how we can learn from the wisdom of our elders and ancestors. Wawa shares the important programs and solutions that her organization Black Girl Environmentalist offers to support and uplift black women in climate.
Connect with Wawa:
Black Girl Environmentalist - Website
Black Girl Environmentalist - Instagram
Resources:
Ecowomanism by Melanie L. Harris
Ecowomanist Wisdom: Encountering Earth and Spirit
Connecticut public schools must now teach about climate change
Black Girl Environmentalist is highlighting the contributions of Black women in the climate movement
Ecofeminism and Environmental Liberation - Intersectional Environmentalist
All We Can Save: Truth, Courage, and Solutions for the Climate Crisis
Black Feminist Ecological Thought: A Manifesto | Atmos
Writing - France Roberts-Gregory
Women Speak - Stories & Solutions from the Frontlines of Climate Change
Gender Just Transition: A Path to System Change - WEDO
Explainer: How gender inequality and climate change are interconnected | UN Women
Credits:
Hosted and produced by Kiana Michaan
Edited and co-produced by Lucy Little
Wawa Gatheru: [00:00:00] I think in movement work, it's really important to prioritize and cultivate spaces for joy, for the sake of joy, because this work is hard as well. All the language that we use in regards to building a better climate future comes from like the abolitionist frameworks and The only ways in which we can provide spaces for people to be their full self are spaces that allow us to experience joy.
Joy sustains life. I don't want to be in a world that doesn't allow me to experience joy. And it's in identifying a lot of spaces that I can experience joy that I'm like, okay, I want to build a better world where more people can be joyful and can live a life beyond survival.
Kiana Michaan: Hello and welcome to Climate with Kiana, a podcast that explores topics of climate, energy and sustainability through a framework of joy and justice. I'm your host, [00:01:00] Kiana Michaan, a climate justice and clean energy advocate. This show brings you conversations with passionate people working in climate, and together we explore the many exciting and intersectional solutions to one of the greatest challenges of our time.
So if you've ever felt overwhelmed by the climate crisis, these conversations are for you. Whether you're already a climate nerd or just climate curious, join me each week in an exploration of climate justice solutions. Let's cultivate hope and joy and vision new possibilities together.
Today, we are going to talk about intergenerational wisdom and eco womanism, an important environmental framework related to eco feminism. We are going to explore some questions that I think are crucial in the fight to address climate change. So what is eco womanism? Why is it important? Why are Black women environmentalists [00:02:00] crucial to climate justice work?
And what is the importance of intergenerational wisdom and collaboration? To dig into these questions, I invited Wawa Gatheru to join me in conversation. Wawa, she, her, is an incredible Kenyan American climate activist and storyteller. She is the founder of Black Girl Environmentalists and currently a 776 Fellow, a Public Voices Fellow on the climate crisis at Yale, and serves on a number of environmental boards and councils.
Wawa was recently appointed to the first ever EPA Youth Advisory Council and was selected on the Forbes 30 under 30 list for social impact in 2024. Wawa is the first Black person in history to receive the Rhodes, Truman, and Udall scholarships. She is truly breaking barriers and merging storytelling, activism, and content creation.
It was a pleasure to speak with her about these important topics. Here is my conversation with Wawa. Thank you so much for being here, Wawa.
Wawa Gatheru: Thank you, Kiana. I'm so excited to get to have this conversation with you. So, my [00:03:00] name's Wawa. My full name's Wanjiku. Um, Wawa's a nickname. My last name is Gatheru. I am, like you said, a Kenyan American environmental justice baby scholar activist.
Um, very, very much early in my journey, but essentially have been in the environmental justice space, climate movement space. Since I was 15, I've worn a lot of different hats. I'm also the founder and executive director of Black Girl Environmentalist. I lead a lot of our fundraising. I represent the organization.
Um, and in the very like beginning stages as baby startup, um, do a lot of like vision planning and honestly, just. A lot of everything at this point.
Kiana Michaan: I'd love to hear more about your journey into environmental and environmental justice work. What inspired you to be in the climate space?
Wawa Gatheru: Yeah, [00:04:00] I'd say that it was anger.
So, I officially had my aha moment of like not just understanding that the climate crisis was very personal, up close, rather than this. It's out there issue in the Arctic. When I was 15, I had stumbled into an environmental science class that I adamantly did not want to take, but it was at our chemistry and just had a really good experience with my teacher, Mrs.
Rose and with the curriculum in large part because she had decided to add an environmental justice chapter. It was the first time that I had ever been so enthralled by what was being taught. in school that I would literally spend hours in the middle of the night, just researching about the tradition of environmental justice, the history of environmental justice, the tradition of black women and brown mothers and, you know, just leaders that have really cultivated the [00:05:00] international environmental and climate justice movement.
And. I was really angry that climate had, to me, been so intertwined with social justice and racial justice made, obviously, by looking at the tradition of environmental justice, but there still was this narrative issue of the mainstream white led movement not making those connections. So I was really angry about that while also understanding that it was my community as a Black woman, as A Kenyan black woman with communities, both here in the United States, but also abroad in the Horn of Africa that work currently and to this day, still experiencing the brunt of the climate crisis, but the language wasn't there.
So I was having a lot of aha moments around experiences that folks close to me have had, or were having and being like, okay, so [00:06:00] clearly the climate crisis. There's this leadership crisis that's happening where the folks at the forefront of this issue are not really represented. I don't see myself represented and it's impacting us worst and first.
So if I want to be a part of any type of social impact or social change work, then I have to dedicate myself to climate because climate connects with everything. So like at the age of 15, I was like, okay, I'm going to dedicate my life to this. And yeah, I've been involved at a variety of different capacities.
When I was 16, I was Kennedy Lugar Youth Exchange and study scholar with the state department in Thailand. And, got involved with environmental organizing and environmental education on very like small scale, but still enough to where there was this maintained interest. And then when I was 17, I started college at the University of Connecticut and really got involved in the statewide climate movement and then involved as a student leader at school.
[00:07:00] Um, that was involved a ton of different things with a really amazing community that I cultivated there. They helped lead Connecticut's first youth climate lobby day where we bust in over a hundred youth, many of whom couldn't vote to lobby lawmakers on the importance of green legislation and particularly legislation around integrating climate into the K through 12 system.
And that actually was passed recently. Connecticut now is one of the first states in the, in the entire nation that. That does that. And I'm definitely not taking credit for that. But the Youth Climate Lobby Day was the first like large action around young people, you know, being very up close and proximate to decision makers on that matter.
And that occurrence has repeated every year since and definitely contributed to that. In addition to helping the push for UConn to become the first. Um, I went to the first public university in the country to require an environmental literacy general education requirement. And then on the research end, led some interesting research on food insecurity for college students with a good friend [00:08:00] of mine.
We led the first ever research study assessing food insecurity for college students at a public university in the state. And it just took off from there to where our methodology was used to create, um, a state law that was passed. So ever since 2019 onward. Every public university in the state of Connecticut has to use that exact study to assess food insecurity at the college level.
Our senator, Senator Murphy, who was very involved, um, around food insecurity and access, used the same methodology to introduce a federal bill. Um, so in the midst of all that kind of stuff, like, Gaining language around climate environmentalism also in a lot of these climate spaces and being like the youngest person by like 30 years, the only person of color, let alone black person.
And just like being in my classrooms and feeling as though like I was contributing, I was simultaneously intellectually exhausted in a lot of my classes because it felt like I was spending so much of my [00:09:00] time. Explaining why centering black and indigenous scholars was needed because that was not the case in the majority of my classes and just yeah, I just think of this paradox of very real in life organizing our actions that were alongside other black and brown people, right?
That understood all these connections, but then like in the more formal quote unquote, formal spaces, it was, uh, I don't think what does race have to do with environmentalism or like food insecurity is not happening with college students. Like college students have always had to like eat ramen and not make choices between keeping the lights on.
And food. And I was like, Hmm, that doesn't mean that it's not there. And that doesn't mean that that's something that we should not address. Right. So in the midst of all that kind of stuff, I'll bleed some things and then graduated in 2020 and you know, was stuck at home for like nine months [00:10:00] before I moved to the Oxford for grad school.
And I was really confused on like, how do I contribute to this movement when I'm not In person. So I did what I knew best, which was write. And I started writing a lot, publishing a lot of op eds, and they were going viral, and a lot of Black women were reaching out to me. And really, unfortunately, in a lot of ways, having very similar experiences is, especially young Black women in the climate space, can have this aha moment of, oh, it'd be kind of cool if we made a community for us.
So started BGE as like an Instagram affinity group for folks to see themselves represented in like the climate narrative. And yeah, there is this kind of history of like earlier on this year, um, or actually last fall, making the decision that BGE was something that I wanted to pursue full time, even though I didn't have the funds to do so.
And even though I was Getting job offers, like quote unquote dream jobs that like younger me would have like freaked out about having even the option of [00:11:00] being asked to, to join organizations and have positions like that. But at the same time, I was like, we have a pathway and retention issue in climate for black women and femmes and non binary folks, so like, if I can somehow make something out of nothing, then we can really change some things.
Kiana Michaan: You've touched on so many important things, but I was relating to your journey of finding inspiration in school at a young age, which just goes. To show how important it is to have comprehensive intersectional climate education for students because I think for so many people, you know, there's just entire topics that you're not exposed to in school and having pathways to having that education be accessible is so important and to hear about the impact of your work contributing to the legislation being passed in Connecticut.
That's so powerful to see that. I think I also had a bit of an aha moment I As that was the [00:12:00] first time I was learning about climate science and I was feeling like, okay, I have to, I want to devote my life to this work because I think this is truly the challenge of our time while also tying it into a bunch of other interests I had in environmental health and how that was Disproportionately impacting women of color in food justice.
That was something I had been interested in for years So I think hearing about how all the different topics that you were interested in and got involved in Has just led to this work you're doing I think no one's path is necessarily linear and you can come to this work from many places with many interests which is beautiful.
So I want to talk more about Black Girl Environmentalist. As you started to touch on, I think it takes a lot of courage to step out and do your own thing and follow your own path when you can have that vision of the impact you can make. So I'd love to hear a little bit more about BGE, the mission, the work you're doing, and how some of the challenges that you [00:13:00] experienced led you to founding it, translating this passion for activism and bringing it together in BGE?
Wawa Gatheru: Yeah, I think the idea for BGE was seeded for many years, but I didn't know it, right? I mean, our entire mission is around resourcing and empowering. Black women, black girls, black femmes, non binary folks, gender non conforming folks, basically everyone who's not a cis black man.
Because, you know, even in our communities, patriarchy exists everywhere, basically, right? So by proxy of that, right, when it comes to the climate crisis or environmental degradations or hazards, those social structures impact us, us differently and disproportionately, even within the black community. And so, uh, those experiences and, and that of just like being a young black girl proximate to the environmental and climate space slash in the space, [00:14:00] there were just a lot of unfortunate experiences I had.
Like my first environmental job, I came up to my boss. I forgot exactly how I put it, but I basically made a comment about how I noticed that in the 12 years that they had had interns, they never had a black intern and throughout my time at it, always been trying to figure out ways to engage with essentially black folks and was shot down every single time. And I quickly realized why at the end of this interaction. And he straight up told me like, black people don't care about the environment. Um, he's like, we've tried, but y'all don't, don't care. Um, and I like cried, and it was a big moment. I actually didn't even leave because I needed money.
Kiana Michaan: Unfortunately, Wawa is not alone in her experience. Most of the large and well funded environmental organizations are predominantly white and lack diversity in their leadership. Studies actually show that Black people in the U. S. are more concerned about climate and [00:15:00] environment, and are more likely to take environmental action than their white counterparts. This can be attributed to Black people facing a higher burden of pollution and climate impacts due to historical geographic patterns of environmental racism.
Wawa Gatheru: That's one of many experiences of like having to exhaust myself convincing people of something that is so real and something that in a lot of cases is something that can inform life or death for folks around the world, right?
And to me and all those experiences. It was almost as though if someone could tell me this at that level of being very young, very early career, I knew that there are other people in power that are making other types of decisions and in those spaces that can and likely do carry these type of misconceptions.
And that informs funding that forms all types of resourcing to us. And that is not. Um, a climate movement that we can put our [00:16:00] trust in as a movement that in a lot of ways is being trusted with solving the biggest crisis of all time. So in the midst of me wanting to leave climate so many, so many times, I kept coming back to the reality that if we were at the forefront of the climate crisis, then we need to be in these spaces and be in positions of power.
So to kind of like lean into those things. Women in general, and right now I'm being like very gender specific because unfortunately the reality is is that in the current research around placement of environmental hazards, in regards to folks experiences with natural disasters, Almost everything is black and white, cis women, cis men. There is no space for intersectional, um, identities.
Kiana Michaan: As Wawa says, intersectionality is key for climate and environmental justice work, as we cannot have climate solutions without centering those most impacted by the crisis.
Wawa Gatheru: And [00:17:00] that is also something that's at the top of my mind with BGE of as we like lean into more narrative work being intentional around creating space for folks and their experiences to be documented and thus can be better supported, right?
So, but if we go back to the research that we do have. Women do experience a climate crisis with disproportionate severity because enforced gender inequality makes us more susceptible to escalating environmental stressors. And then, you know, when we go deeper, black girls and women in particular bearing even heavier burden.
From the impacts of the climate crisis because of historic and impending impacts of colonialism, racism, inequality, and because of this proximity, black women have a unique role to play as indispensable actors. And what's so interesting to me is it feels as though in other spheres of society. thinking like political.
It is so understood the way that black women quite literally hold democracy in place. Every season there is some [00:18:00] black woman that's the martyr, right? Stacey Abrams is someone that a lot of people, and rightfully so, of like talking about her contribution to um, in regards to the state of Georgia and her, her positionality of helping to support democracy.
And there's so many black women like Stacey Abrams that have been around for so long, but we can understand the ways in which black women, for example, like hold up democracy, black women hold up every social movement, black women hold up communities. But when it comes to climate, people don't make the connection.
I constantly find myself having to explain why black women are at the forefront of climate and need to be. Resource and positioned as leaders also as leaders already creating solutions as a means of survival and may not have the language to connect it to climate, but definitely are already doing that work.
And I don't really understand this cognitive dissonance. I don't know if it's just straight up intended ignorance or like [00:19:00] ignorance that they can't even place because they're just. People are, I don't know, like, I don't know what it is, but it's just so odd to me because I mean, I'd love to hear your thoughts about that.
Kiana Michaan: A lot of thoughts on what you just shared, but what you were saying about essentially the cognitive dissonance of this. myth and this narrative that Black people don't care, are not interested about the environment, which is so far from the truth when the research actually shows quite the opposite, that we are more interested and engaged because we're feeling the impacts much more.
And our relationship to the environment is different because of the historical injustices. There's just a dominant narrative which doesn't actually reflect how people are actually feeling and experiencing the environment in Black communities. And I think that it's a self perpetuating cycle [00:20:00] than when the people in power are not diverse, and essentially continue gatekeeping.
All of these resources and positions. But yeah, I think to your last question, it's really hard for people to understand when it's not in the mainstream narrative and when there's not a lot of representation. And so I think we need to build more bridges of empathy and understanding because I truly believe, yes, we need Black women deeply centered in the solutions because we're not going to solve our environmental justice and climate issues without it.
So we have so many incredible Black women who have been pioneering this work for a very long time. And with not getting the level of recognition they deserve, deserve which is in keeping with his story. There's so many Shiro's who have been doing this work for decades before our time, have been stewarding the land, stewarding [00:21:00] the environment and how do we uplift the leaders in this work?
We do need everyone in the movement, because this work needs to be done together. So how do we build bridges of understanding and empathies to have more allyship and support from everyone? With all of that said, I guess I'll make a few, a few points about more how Black women are disproportionately impacted and get into some solutions.
I think it's first the historical deeply embedded patterns of environmental racism that have led to a disproportionate burden of pollution and environmental hazard and health impacts falling much higher on black women in ways that may not always seem obvious. So, now we're seeing, of course, with increased extreme weather, all of those impacts, but it affects women more globally, particularly in developing countries as well, because women [00:22:00] are often, in traditional gender roles, have more responsibility for things that are deeply impacted by climate, such as cooking and gathering water and these sorts of things, and you see just study after study showing the direct impact.
And then, even in In the developed world as well, we see direct impacts on reproductive health, on women's health, I mean the list goes on and on. Just wanted to touch on some of those points briefly. I'd love to talk a little bit about eco womanism and this idea of taking feminism and eco feminism, which is a Framework that merges environmentalism and feminism and bringing that together with Womanism which is a black feminism framework.
So what is eco womanism meant to you? And how has it informed your work?
Wawa Gatheru: Yeah, I love that framing. So eco womanism was coined by the incredible Melanie Harris and she actually has a book called Eco Womanism, which I recommend everyone to go read. [00:23:00] Essentially, it's a framework that argues that Black women across the diaspora, um, make unique contributions to the environmental justice movement in the ways that we Theologize and practice spiritual activism and earth advocacy.
And, you know, what's interesting about that is I think oftentimes because the ways in which black history and black stories and the ways in which they're taught in like, you know, the education system. And, and thus understood. It's almost as though it's like purely from, from a point of subjugation and, you know, there, there are narratives of that, that, that are a part of the true story right across the diaspora of the impacts of colonialism and imperialism and systemic racism informing our experience with the quote unquote natural world and with the earth, right?
But it's so much more than that, right? Like, there are fundamental [00:24:00] connections, and as Melanie argues with the eco womanism framework, that, that Black and brown maternal figures have always had with, with the planet and with, with Gaia, right?
Kiana Michaan: Gaia, the goddess and personification of the earth in the Greek pantheon of gods, often in eco feminism, represents the spiritual dimension of our relationship with the earth.
In many traditions, Indigenous cultures, and eco womanism, this spiritual connection with the earth highlights the importance of connecting to our lineages and ancestors.
Wawa Gatheru: So I think it's, I think it's important to, to note that and also say that, you know, in, in the lack of highlighting centering that has happened, it even goes beyond the folks that we understand as being like the mothers and grandmothers of the environmental justice movement, right?
This goes into our own lineages, like our great, great, great, great, great grandmothers. That we're somewhere farming, we're [00:25:00] somewhere in relationship with the land and the ways that that has been passed down. There are knowledge systems that can be passed down through lineages. I don't think it's any accident that both of us have found ourselves doing this work by any means.
Unfortunately, all my grandparents have since passed. So my pathway of, of discovering those things is reliant on both my quote unquote blood family and folks that are generally just a part of our community still in Kenya that grew up alongside them that are also engaged in earth advocacy practices or just practices in relationship with the land.
And I think that the more that we. understand the Black diasporic relationship with the land as being so much more than subjugation, the more opportunities there are for us to lean on oral histories and yeah, just the truth that is our innate connection with, with the planet that has existed for so long.[00:26:00]
Kiana Michaan: So beautifully said when I think about the lineage of, of family and ancestors and how the relationship with the land has been. Shifting over time and even as younger people, we can see how much it's changing right now since we're in a really intense period in the world.
Wawa Gatheru: Yeah, and it even extends into language, right?
We talk about the connections between cultural loss and how that informs environmental loss. I think about how many societies out there and communities that have had to forcibly lose their language. And language is fundamental to culture, and that's the way that people have been in communion with the land for my tribe, for example, with the British and colonialism in Kenya, Kikuyu as a language is one that is not being passed down or in a lot of [00:27:00] ways stewarded by the younger generation for a variety of different reasons, right?
There's a lot of loss around understanding our indigenous religions. And the things that have been passed down in regards to, even like certain words that explain phenomenons that don't exist in English. And it's been interesting learning more and more about how the language actually, people hid, um, certain things in the language.
As a way to continue to pass along information for activities, for example, that were forbidden by the British and that exists in so many different cultures and makes even the larger case of how important it is for us to talk to our elders and the importance of intergenerational learnings because our ancestors have had to go through so much.
It's crucial to cultural [00:28:00] continuity. My grandparents lived through and before British colonialism, right? Like they experience an existential threat in their lifetimes of a tomorrow that wasn't promised. Something that I wish I still had was the opportunity to actually talk to them more about that.
Unfortunately, it wasn't something that they ever. Spoke about or talked about and I never asked and I guess I'll never know what would have happened if I asked But the reality is is that there are tons of people that are still with us today that have gone through so many existential threats and we're able to conceptualize and actively put in in place practices through community oriented actions advocacy pushback resilience resistance that We definitely need in this moment So it's, it's all about like understanding that, yes, the, the circumstance that we're in right now, the climate crisis, it is unique, but the [00:29:00] systems that created it are not unique.
The world building tools that we need to construct a better world are not unique. The language of resistance and liberation is not new. And all these tools exist. It's just a matter of going to the sources and going to the folks that have been around longer than us and connecting our knowledge sets.
Cause there's a lot that we know, right? I think you're Gen Z as well, or I think we're both like zillennials.
Kiana Michaan: I don't know how to identify.
Wawa Gatheru: Like we both grew up in like a very interesting time of like the digital age was upon us, but we still like, weren't iPad babies. So like we have a lot of skills in regards to digital organizing that a lot of our elders, mostly they don't know what that is, but it's really helpful.
These are tools that we need. Um This world and the world that we're building so there there's so many opportunities to learn together and to validate each other's experiences [00:30:00] and knowledges and and really harness all those things together.
Kiana Michaan: Yes, I think it goes back to me to the importance of building bridges of understanding between so many differences, whether that be generational, cultural, racial, gender.
So much, I think, is lost in a lot of division and fear and the richness and importance of protecting culture and language is as important as protecting, say, biodiversity loss and species loss, which gets talked about more, but there's just so much rich cultural knowledge and language to protect, and that is key.
In being able to have intergenerational organizing. And like you said, everyone brings different skill sets to the table. We can all learn from each other. Being able to [00:31:00] hold space for each other and have compassion for the differences of our experiences while still being able to move forward into like new systems across the board, because the roots go so deep and the environmental outcomes are really symptoms of massive problems within our political and economic systems.
And as we're building solutions, how do we change that justice and inclusion and feminism and are not afterthoughts and are deeply embedded in how we're building the solutions.
Having explored the connections of climate, culture, and collaboration, I wanted to hear from Wawa how she is bringing these values into her work. I asked her to share some of the solutions she is building through her organization, Black Girl Environmentalist, and why these solutions are so important.
Wawa Gatheru: I feel like the best way to answer that is through revisiting the issues that BGE exists to address, right? Overall, there is a pathway and [00:32:00] retention issue that exists for Black women.
In the climate space. So black women have the lowest retention rate in the climate sector than any other demographic. And as a young person getting into the green space is already hard, no matter who you are, if you don't have connections, you don't have traditionally, right? This is how it's traditionally been.
If you don't have. some safety net to be able to accept not well paid job. Breaking the green ceiling is very, very difficult. And that has, in a lot of ways, informed who it is that breaks through, and therefore becomes decision makers and leaders in climate, um, across disciplines. So BGE is working to empower and resource our, our, our constituency through addressing the pathway and retention issue.
So our goal and our line of solutions are really around creating pathways for particularly emerging climate leaders of color to thrive across environmental disciplines through the areas of community building, green workforce development, [00:33:00] and narrative change. So you have different programming that falls in line with that.
So community building, that's our hub program that is essentially building a cohort of early career, black women or non binary folks. that are creating resources for place based opportunities for BGEs to convene, to network, and to experience joy in this movement. On the green workforce development end of things, we have different programming that we're debuting this fall around hopefully working towards filling the gap between access and representation for green jobs.
So hosting a variety of events in our hub cities that bring together recruiters. Or decision makers in the climate sector with emerging climate leaders of color and getting to experience spaces that are providing resources for navigating the green career sphere, getting folks connected to the right people as well as representation of existing black women and non [00:34:00] binary folks that are already, despite the odds, leading.
In climate across disciplines from fashion to policy to justice, right? And then on the narrative change end of things that is encompassed by a lot of different things. I think we have a really strong social media presence. And as we continue to grow, continuing to provide resources, educational resources for people to see themselves reflected in the general climate narrative.
But that also goes into deeper research. One of the things that we're working on this calendar year is hiring a firm to co create and co publish the first ever state of green jobs for Black women and non binary individuals that will hopefully, A, better inform us internally, but also be helpful for for the movement at large, right?
The data points that we have that articulate that black women have the lowest retention rate in the climate sector. There is no thorough research as to the [00:35:00] dynamics that lead to why the lived experiences of these individuals or the opportunity for people to really share their stories and thus co create solutions that can best support folks already here and thus the people that are interested in entering this movement.
And so, and in addition to the fact that, as I brought up before, the majority of, if not all the research around gender differences in regards to everything from natural disasters to green jobs does not include non cis women. Right? So, non cis women and non cis men.
So that research will hopefully also be creating space and pathways for intersexual identities to also be included, centered, and to be prioritized in our programming. And hopefully that the movement at large, but those are a lot of things that we're working on. Oh, and the last thing I'll say on the green jobs development end is we have a fellowship program debuting [00:36:00] next summer, which will be placing between 10 to 15 rising juniors and rising seniors that are BGEs at 10 week internship programs.
that fall under the climate sector umbrella. So what we're trying to do is really address that pathway and retention issue through a variety of different things that prioritize joy, that prioritize opportunities for people to build community, and for people to gain resources, whether that's monetary resources, whether that's mentorship, whether that is getting connected to spaces that have traditionally been gatekept from us.
Kiana Michaan: The amount of conversations I've had with people about the challenges of getting green jobs, there's really a lot of barriers on so many different levels. So that's just such vital work you're doing in that space. So exciting to hear about the research. component as well because as you've said there's so much nuance to the challenges we're facing and we don't even [00:37:00] actually have the data points fully so being able to have research that is asking the right questions, and going to shine more light on How do we actually need to be approaching solutions in a way that is fully inclusive in terms of race and gender?
Because I was happy that you mentioned joy a number of times in relation to the work you're doing. So, why is joy important to you in movement building and what brings you joy?
Wawa Gatheru: Yeah, I think joy is, is crucial to me, experiencing joy, the ability to experience joy in an environment says a lot about the environment itself, about communities, about institutions.
If we're thinking about, for example, like a toxic workplace, if you've ever been in a toxic workplace, it's very difficult to experience joy in those spaces. Joy is a good litmus test of the durability of an environment, and then also reflects [00:38:00] upon. The opportunities for relationships to be built, joy, undergirds, all of our relationships, right?
Like being able to have space to engage, enjoy, to experience happiness. Those are, those are things that are really important for us to make connections with people that are like us or not like us. In a lot of ways, joy provides those connection points for us to relate to others that might not have been the people that we're always relating to or, or, or.
Quote, unquote, in community with, um, I think in movement work in particular, it's really important to prioritize and cultivate spaces for joy for the sake of joy, because this work is hard as well. It's very hard to. Have in a lot of ways, like an abolitionist framework when it comes to adjust climate future.
Right. I think that all the language that we use in regards to building a better climate future comes from like the abolitionist [00:39:00] frameworks. Right. And the only ways in which we can provide spaces for people to be their full self or spaces that allow us to experience joy. So that's a priority for me and any of the movement spaces that I'm in or a part of.
And then also interpersonally. I think that joy sustains life. I don't want to be in a world that doesn't allow me to experience joy. And it's in identifying a lot of spaces that I can experience joy, that I'm like, okay, I want to build a better world where more people can be joyful and can live a life beyond survival.
Kiana Michaan: Mm. Joy sustains us and we need joy to be in this work and be able to do it sustainably. And joy is a universal language too. I'd love to hear about what is giving you hope for the future of climate and environmental justice work and a future that fully centers eco womanism.
Wawa Gatheru: Yeah, I have an answer for that. I'll also be honest, I've been. [00:40:00] I've experienced a lot of climate grief and anxiety, more than usual, the past month. That's definitely weighed on my spirit. I think it's healthy and very human to experience those things, but yeah, I think there's still taboo around like actually naming that that's something that folks still experience once they're in the thing, because in a lot of ways, the way that we Still, I think as a movement, we're very early talking about eco anxiety and eco grief.
The language is still very new, and in a lot of ways, the general conversation around that is you can address climate anxiety and climate grief through action. Which is true. A hundred percent. I experience a lot less climate anxiety and climate grief than When I wasn't as involved in the movement as I am now or like not at all, but it doesn't go away I think it I think it's important for us to be real [00:41:00] about that because we're experiencing all all these same things There have been a lot of times where it's just very difficult to to want to do anything really just based off of like feeling like Deep grief and, and loss, but the things that give me hope a lot of different things, I think I hope hope is a discipline.
I think it's something that you earn. I think it's a deeply personal process. Hope comes from in a lot of ways, like reading texts from civil rights leaders and folks that contributed a lot of thought leadership around. It's building a better world and actively thinking about liberatory proxies, um, that they were ideating and that we desperately need right now.
And it's, I, I feel less alone when I, when I'm like in those texts, because I know that a lot of these feelings [00:42:00] of despair and grief are ones that people have had generationally and people have still made it through. So that's something that I get hope from, even when I don't always. See the better day, but another thing that brings me hope is I think i'm very lucky to wear like my community Inside and outside of work are very climate aware and climate active.
So my idea of the world is that tons of people are involved and are doing the things. And I know that I'm in a bubble. I'm very aware of that. But that is the world that I'm building, right? Of like, on the days where I'm just like, damn, is this worth it? I'm surrounded by other people that are either in the same process, have been in the same process, and that are really collaborative and really empowering. That brings me a lot of hope.
Kiana Michaan: I think I'm also in a bubble of extremely passionate climate people and I love that bubble. Um, but [00:43:00] it does bring me hope to know so many people like yourself, grateful to be in community with you, but to, to know and be surrounded by so many people who are deeply passionate and caring and connected to this work.
And then I also love having these conversations with people who are not in the climate space, because I think those are equally important. I always learn something to understand all the different perspectives we're bringing to the climate crisis.
There is a lot of narrative about needing like to alchemize our climate emotions into action, but a certain amount of it is, these are climate grief and anxiety that.
It's gonna be there because things are changing around us so rapidly and I think creating this space to be with ourselves and feel and process and That ties into this, like, radical self care in activism and just allowing ourselves to feel, [00:44:00] because there is so many layers of what we are experiencing in this moment.
Wawa Gatheru: I just really appreciate you. I appreciate you for creating this.
Kiana Michaan: Thank you. Likewise. So thank you so much for sharing your experiences and your time today. I deeply appreciate it.
Wawa Gatheru: Thank you.
Kiana Michaan: Thank you for listening. You can find Wawa and learn more about her work at wawagatheru.org and blackgirlenvironmentalist.org. Please check out the show notes for more resources about the topics discussed.
Thank you so much for listening to season one of Climate with Kiana. Stay tuned for some bonus content in the next few weeks, and we'll be back with season two in just a few months. Until then, be well and be joyous. Thank you for listening.
Climate with Kiana is hosted and produced by me, Kiana Michaan. This episode was co produced and edited by Lucy Little. Theme music by Colette Michaan. This podcast is recorded and produced [00:45:00] in New York City on unceded Munsee Lenape land. If you enjoyed the episode, please share it with a friend, leave a comment, and subscribe anywhere you listen to podcasts.
For more information about the guests and topics discussed, please visit climatewithkiana. com.