In this episode, we hear from Aiko Schaefer, founding executive director of Just Solutions, which is a BIPOC led climate organization working to uplift equitable community-driven policy solutions. We discuss everything from policy implementation, green hydrogen, the limitations of clean technology, environmental justice, and more.
In this episode, we hear from Aiko Schaefer, founding executive director of Just Solutions, which is a BIPOC led climate organization working to uplift equitable community-driven policy solutions. We discuss everything from policy implementation, green hydrogen, the limitations of clean technology, environmental justice, and more.
Credits
Hosted and produced by Kiana Michaan
Edited and co-produced by Lucy Little
Music by Naima Mackrel
For resources, transcripts, and more information about the guest: https://www.climatewithkiana.com/podcast/just-solutions-with-aiko-schaefer
Kiana Michaan: [00:00:00] Welcome to Climate with Kiana, a podcast about climate solutions shared through a framework of joy and justice. I'm your host, Kiana, a solar and clean energy advocate passionate about just climate action. In this show, let's explore solutions to the climate crisis. through inspiring conversations with climate experts who are leading important and innovative work to shape a more just and sustainable world.
Let's cultivate hope and joy by exploring these climate solutions and visioning new possibilities together. In today's episode, I have the chance to speak with Aiko Schaefer, the executive director of Just Solutions. A BIPOC led organization working to uplift equitable solutions to the climate crisis.
Aiko Schaefer: It really is about the communities that are really [00:01:00] coming up with extraordinary solutions. They have been so historically overlooked, historically damaged, that There's this resiliency, right? There's this recognition that they feel that no one's coming to save them, and so they have been really coming together and figuring out what their community really needs, and doing it with such doggedness, with such creativity, with such efficiency, that there's so much to learn there, that we actually invested in them, both financially, but also in terms of their leadership in the movement.
I think we would be able to solve this problem in ways that we haven't yet imagined.
Kiana Michaan: Aiko and I discuss everything from policy implementation, green hydrogen, the limitations of clean technology, how to integrate equitable racial justice work and climate work and so much more. So without further ado, here's my conversation with Aiko.
This podcast is brought to you in part by support from the Clean Energy [00:02:00] Leadership Institute. CELI equips emerging leaders across the clean energy ecosystem with energy systems expertise and a community of practice to drive the transition to a clean energy economy. CELI is building a multiracial, diverse, and inclusive community of changemakers working across sectors and disciplines to lead an equitable, decarbonized, and resilient energy ecosystem.
To learn more about the work of the Clean Energy Leadership Institute, visit Visit cleanenergyleaders. org. Aiko, welcome to the show.
Aiko Schaefer: Thank you for having me on the show. So excited to be here with you today.
Kiana Michaan: Likewise. Could you introduce yourself a little bit? I know I just did, but pretend I didn't say that.
And introduce yourself as well.
Happy to. I'm Aiko Schaefer. I'm the executive director of Just Solutions.
And for those who are not familiar with Just Solutions, what is Just Solutions and what is the work that the organization is doing?
Aiko Schaefer: So we are a [00:03:00] new national climate organization that's really focused on working with communities disproportionately impacted by climate change as they bring their ideas into reality.
So as you said, Kiana, we provide research and policy support and technical assistance on a number of issues, whatever it may be that communities are trying to tackle, what problems they're trying to tackle and the different solutions that they're coming up with. And so we have an amazing team here at Just Solutions.
Many who grew up in environmental justice communities, but had the opportunity to go to school. A lot of them are first generation college students that have gone on to have advanced degrees and law degrees, master's degrees, PhDs. And so really bring this wonderful blend of that lived experience with the, you know, traditional academic training that it takes to be able to do the work to provide the assistance that communities often need as they're moving their solutions forward.
Kiana Michaan: I'm so impressed with how the work of just You managed to cover such a broad range of [00:04:00] challenges and topics and opportunities for solutions within the climate and environmental justice space and how the research and different programming you offer really goes into depth and offers A broad variety of perspectives and yeah, I think it's it's really really thoughtfully done.
So Excited to dive more into some of that research and programming But before we do that, I would love to hear a little bit more about your personal journey in the environmental space in that, like, what inspired you and called you to be in this work? And perhaps what are some professional highlights that led you to this role?
Aiko Schaefer: Well, I've had the privilege of working on a number of issues across the country, a lot of extraordinary leaders and people and thinkers in the space of progressive issues. Most of my background is in running state and national legislative campaigns. [00:05:00] Namely public policy campaigns, but also partisan campaigns and so spend a lot of time in my career doing that learning the trade, so to speak.
Sometime around 2008. I decided to take a break from all of that. I think I was really, you know, disillusioned with where we're going on the left. It was also an important time for me to spend time with my Okay. Children. And so I took the opportunity to go teach to the University of Washington in Seattle, which gave me this opportunity to, you know, study and read, but also reflect on my life and my career.
And really at that point, didn't know much of what I wanted to do. It was really around 2014 and really full time in 2016 that I decided to dive into working on climate justice issues. And the reason is because I felt that there was this, you know, important opportunity, not only just to Obviously, you know, save the planet and save ourselves in this moment, but really for me, you know, it's the strategy that I find the most interesting that I felt like there was a real opportunity to [00:06:00] build the broad movement that we needed to have the impact and political force that it takes to move forward.
Create the change. And so it's just been extraordinary to be part of the advancement to sort of witness the advancement of policy design policy leadership around climate justice issues. And so it's just been such an honor to be able to be in this space. And to be working with so many community groups on the ground and so many inspiring campaigns and to see their, you know, their ideas come to reality.
Kiana Michaan: That's wonderful. And I think it is an exciting time for Climate policy in the US particularly in the last few years and we'll see, you know, how that continues to, to evolve. Obviously a lot of shifts politically that keep us on our toes, but there's been so much progress made and I think there's so much more national attention on environmental justice and climate justice.
So definitely a, I think an exci an exciting time and. It's always wonderful to see [00:07:00] how many people are so deeply passionate and committed to this work because it ultimately is, I think, about, like, community and caring about each other, right? Yeah. So, can you share some of the, uh, some of Just Solutions guiding principles?
And I know also the work you do is rooted in, like, a feminist framework. And how You use those guiding principles and intersectional approach to inform all the different areas of expertise you're working in.
Aiko Schaefer: Yeah, definitely. So, you know, Just Solutions is an organization we work in service to, so to speak, of community, right?
So they really are the moral compass, I would argue the lead place where the best ideas come from, where the leadership really should be. And so fundamental to our approach is is honoring and acknowledging that. So for us, we believe that the best and brightest ideas are coming from community. They're [00:08:00] working intersectionally.
They're thinking about how their communities are being impacted, what the solutions could be in really creative and interesting ways. We also believe that the people that are disproportionately impacted by climate change should lead the movement that the people who directly are impacted by and stand to benefit and should benefit from climate solutions are those communities.
And so that really. drives our focus and really our approach. As a feminist centered organization, we are a BIPOC woman led organization, which I think is really unusual in the national climate space. Our board is also majority BIPOC. And so, you know, the environmental justice movement and the philosophies of the movement are really grounded in the strength and importance of mother nature.
And so for us, Thinking about when we talk about the solutions and the work out there, there's really the centering of recognizing that Mother Earth is just an important part of our very existence. You know, for her ability to be strong and to be healed, [00:09:00] to be able to honor the role that she plays in the, you know, the way in which she has taken care of us.
as beings and the importance of really centering that work. And so for us, you know, the feminist orientation is both in an operational practical way and how we run our organization, how it's led. But I think fundamentally it really is about thinking about the planet we live on more as a living, nurturing, supportive element to our existence, which I think is antithetical candidly to where.
The mainstream environmental movement climate movement is which is almost in more of a sort of controlling and dominating nature and of course extracting from nature. And so for us, it's really important for us to center that thinking. And I think that is reflective of the long term orientation of the environmental justice movement.
Kiana Michaan: That's really wonderful to hear. And I think you make an important point, particularly in policy spaces and Climate tech and energy, that feminist framework, I [00:10:00] think is often not there, even though it's grounded, you know, and the connection to mother earth. I think of oftentimes the movement around ecofeminism seems almost like an offshoot, right?
And it doesn't have necessarily. full integration into mainstream environmental work, particularly in the, in the policy space. So it's really great to hear how you're integrating that with work that is both in the culture of your organization and the fact that your work is so policy centered and you have that approach and that framework.
So for sharing that. So you have a report that, A recent report, Comprehensive Building Blocks for a Regenerative and Just Policy, Just 100 percent Policy, that's working to help frontline organizations develop local policies around environmental justice. And as you just mentioned, around needing local communities to lead this work in procedural justice when it comes to policymaking.
Can you share a little bit about what some of the takeaways [00:11:00] or insights from that report?
Aiko Schaefer: Yeah, so that report was really a foundational document that we created as we were becoming Just Solutions. So that report actually came out in 2021, and we were launched as Just Solutions in early 2021. And really that process and that work, I think, informed our creation as an organization.
So back then, uh, it wasn't that long ago, but you know, we developed it in a time period in which The idea of 100 percent was really new to the policy space. This idea that we could, you know, fundamentally move away from a reliance on fossil fuels and how would we get there? And so there was a lot of discussion about could we do that?
How would we do that? And so that, you know, that's a big question. big undertaking to figure out, well, what does that really mean? And I think that the groups that tended to lead that work nationally were national, traditional green organizations. And so given their orientation and their work, equity was not often centered.
So we felt [00:12:00] like it was important for us to really be able to, you know, sort of Reframe or reclaim that conversation on 100%, which was in many communities, a very important policy strategy or approach. So building that document really was this opportunity for us to bring the brightest minds working on policy and environmental justice across the country together for two days and really sat together and said, Okay, if we are going to fully move away from our reliance on fossil fuels, what would it take?
What does it really mean? What's the framework? What's the context that we want to Be able to put forward and what are specific models that are out there that can get us there. And so we spent that time really compiling that document, which I think in many regards has become this kind of broader road map for people to look through it.
And depending upon what your area of emphasis might be to really see again, like how to think about the issue. What are the models that are out there and to begin to drive this conversation and hopefully move that conversation which equity and justice are more braided within the approach than sort of siloed and usually [00:13:00] marginalized to one side of the work.
And so doing that work. Was so important to us thinking about just solutions in its creation, because what we realized is that there was a real hunger for that there was a hunger to elevate collectively the solutions that were being advanced and the wins that communities were having around policy design and approach, but also to give.
people a place where they could replicate models and find solutions that were happening in other places that maybe they could replicate in their own state or community and ultimately to drive kind of that collective vision of having equity and justice at the center. And I think finally, which was sort of the extra part was to be able to lift up BIPOC policy experts who are, you know, very smart and capable and can, you know, talk about it.
broadly climate policy, and to be able to bring that leadership to bear. I think so much of the work, there's an impression or understanding that the people that [00:14:00] are the experts around climate policy are not people who look like you and me, right? And so I think that was a, another element was to be able to bring that to bear in, in what is a very complex question of how we fundamentally move away from fossil fuel dependency and reliance.
Kiana Michaan: You can write all the most amazing, groundbreaking reports that are, you know, full of excellent policy and strategic recommendations, but at the end of the day, The gap between reports to implementation can sometimes be bigger than we want it to, right? Because you then need to make sure that those insights are seen and acted upon by those who they need to be.
So taking that fabulous work and research that you do, how do you then take that of those recommendations and help see them implemented and actually have real impact on on local policies.
Aiko Schaefer: Yeah, that is the big [00:15:00] question. How, right? You know, I think that the challenges first that we have is that, you know, communities are impacted by just an extraordinary number of Problems.
And we would argue that was intentional, right? And when you look at the climate and environmental sort of arena communities that are BIPOC means that are lower income writer shouldering so much of our waste so much of our extraction, right? So much of the impacts of climate. And so when you meet the community organizations, they are just absolutely extraordinary, but they are covering a lot of issues and they are very, very under resourced, right?
They are not being funded at remotely the scale that we would see large traditional environment organizations. So the fundamental challenge is that. You know, in order for, for us to have that expertise involved in, in all the decisions that impact their lives, right, is how do we begin to resource them?
And I think for us, fundamentally, that is the message that we all need to get out, which is we have to [00:16:00] invest in communities. We have to invest in these community organizations that play such a fundamental role to our ability to Broadly save the planet, right? Not just those communities, but I, we would argue, you know, all of us in, in the work that has to happen.
And so for us, you know, we are able to provide what I think of as additional staffing for those organizations. So some of those organizations don't have a policy director or policy staff, they don't have, you know, research staff or researchers, and sometimes they need that, right? They need someone to sort of say, we have this concept and this idea, but we're not quite sure yet What that language might look like in a bill, what it would look like in policy, right?
Or we're, we think we have this idea, you know, we want to kind of understand the problem a little bit more and to see whether or not our solution has impact. So we can staff them on that. And then, as you pointed out, it's not just the passing of the policy, then it's the, uh, implementation. And so, you know, there's rulemaking, there's a complexity of working with agencies to interpret policy to be able to come up with the rules that the [00:17:00] program or policy will sort of land the way that we intended.
And then finally the enforcement, right? So how do you make sure? And so for us, we haven't quite got to the enforcement level. I think we are learning a lot about the administrative advocacy, which is harder to engage in, right? Because it tends to work well with a legal team and folks who sort of can get in that space.
And so, you know, the roles that we play really are as active as communities want us to be. And so the calls that we get across the country really vary in terms of what people want from, you know, models to, you know, helping with language to administrative advocacy, to thinking about enforcement, and also, of course, replication.
So we are Super young and new. I think we've done some of those things. We're trying to meet the need. But again, you know, fundamentally is the implementation part to really kind of bring this all to fruition is the ability by which communities have the capacity to do the work. And that is changing. I mean, we would argue [00:18:00] not as much as, as we need, but I think there is that growing recognition because of the extraordinary advocacy Of the communities on the ground really making that clear, like, hey, you need to give us resources.
We need to have a bigger role in solving the climate crisis.
Kiana Michaan: Absolutely. And it's very true that so many phenomenal environmental justice organizations are really not equipped with the level of resources that they need in different capacities to be able to have the full impact of implementing all the different solutions that are necessary.
So it's, it's really great to See organizations such as just solutions and you know, other coalitions and just different structures to sort of build capacity and support between different leaders within the environmental justice space. So even even though, as you're saying, it's a younger organization, you've already accomplished a lot.
So I'd love to talk about one of the Thank you [00:19:00] projects, you have the hydrogen environmental justice framework, which I've really been enjoying all the content you've released for that. I also really liked the podcast episode you did on on green hydrogen. And I think, you know, we have not that much time in terms of the energy transition and reducing emissions and technologies such as Carbon capture and hydrogen have often been thought of as false solutions by environmental justice communities I mean, I don't think I would maybe go as far as using the word false solutions I think the answer is is it's extremely complex and like that can be the case But yeah hydrogen super interesting topic very complex So could you just share a bit about the work that Just Solutions is doing around green hydrogen and how we can think about what the uses of hydrogen are potentially in a more equitable way?
Aiko Schaefer: Yeah, [00:20:00] definitely. And I'm so glad that you've been checking it out and find it useful because it is a very complex topic and I encourage your listeners to really look at our resources that are online and our web page around it. I'm definitely not the technical expert on hydrogen energy, but I think fundamentally as a nation, I think as a globe, we've been you.
You know, very fascinated with technology. I'm very much in this place and in this moment as we think about how we address climate change, think technology and the hope that there is or that people have around technology is really saving the day has been supercharged because of the recent federal investments.
And so, you know, hydrogen energy by and large is untested technology. We're not really sure how it will work when you look at the hydrogen investment. We're actually not entirely clear what the different technologies are. Um, and so there was just a lot to learn and community groups were very concerned about like, you know, what is this thing and and what does it mean for my community and how can I engage in it?
And so we brought together. [00:21:00] Environmental justice organizations from the regions where the hydrogen hubs were likely to be located and coupled them with our policy team and external technical experts and both from Stanford University and the Institute for Energy and Environmental Research to really work together as a team.
And so. So the technical experts, these are scientists, really helped community groups to understand, well, what is this technology? What are the implications? How does it function? What's the rainbow of colors of hydrogen? How's gray and green different and the whole, you know, kind of details of it, the best of their knowledge.
They were able to put together technical papers such as including hydrogen energies implications for water resources. So again, Encourage everyone to check that out on our website and then through that work and our policy stuff for us leaning in around. What are the policy implications? What decisions were made federally?
Where's the money going? You know, how does implementation roll out around hydrogen hubs and so through that work, in [00:22:00] addition to the technical research papers that are there. The EJ groups decided and worked together to create an EJ framework. So the framework really helps to guide community advocates to think about, um, or to have something to look at as they're evaluating the implications of, of hydrogen energy in their communities and what standards they think are important for it to meet threshold of being environmentally just.
And so it's just been a great resource. It's important now because the hydrogen hubs are rolling out nationally. So we've heard about the framework being used by state leaders and state government folks. We've, we've seen it, um, be used by more community based organizations across the country. It's, they're trying to engage with industry and to understand what the technology is and what the implications are and their advocacy, right?
To have, you know, The hubs work in a way that is beneficial and safe for their communities. And so it's an example of the kind of work that we do in that, um, yes, it's a very technical [00:23:00] issue, but can we, you know, work with folks on the ground to really understand how to bring the information in an accessible way and provide real tools for them to be able to advocate and inform different technological investments.
And so it's just been really great to see. It was very impressive. Effort at this point, we are looking to provide ongoing technical assistance to some of the locations and to be able to convene some of the participants as this rolls out as we begin to understand more and more about, you know, what is happening, what these technologies are and what groups are learning in their communities.
Kiana Michaan: I was really struck by, I believe it was in the webinar you did, how communities were facing just an absolute lack of transparency around hydrogen hubs and lack of access to information to be able to even make informed decisions to engage. And so, Once again, it's just excellent that you're making this information accessible and [00:24:00] available and providing that technical assistance to communities because it's so, it's so needed, right?
There's just these gaps often around technological innovation where communities are not brought into the process early enough and need to be informed and have that information to understand what's going on.
Aiko Schaefer: Absolutely. I mean, we don't know much about the technologies because part of the argument is these are, I forget what the term is, but sort of like they're trade secrets among the different corporations.
However, you know, this is 7 billion of taxpayer dollars, your money, my money, the community members money that we're investing in this, uh, Like I said, you know, a technology that is unproven. And so I think that there is this extraordinary leap of faith that we've taken in the industry. And I think the transparency should be required as a part of that.
So we continue to have challenges with transparency. And I think that's the case across the board. When you look at the recent federal investments in climate solutions, the [00:25:00] just an extraordinary amount of the money. Is toward investing in technologies through, you know, direct investments, tax credits, those sorts of things.
And so there's a lot for us to learn. There's a lot for us to track. There's a lot for us to engage in. And so part of our role is to sort of help with that and to give people the tools they need to feel like they can be informed advocates.
Kiana Michaan: I listened to your season two, I think premier episode with Denise Fairchild, who's incredible.
And I, I just thought she was talking a lot about. The, just the limitations of a faith in technology and sort of just the cultural, the culture we live in that has, you know, allowed this level of extraction and, and of course how to not potentially replicate that in a new age of technology. Um, basically it's a great conversation.
I would recommend everyone go listen. I highly recommend it. Denise is awesome.
Aiko Schaefer: Is amazing. And she talks about so many important things. I think that with this, you know, sort of investment technologies in this [00:26:00] feeling that, you know, we could just, you know, have some invention come out of Silicon Valley that will suddenly like allow us to lead and live our existing lives the way that we currently are as people in the U.
S. In particular, you know, overall, I think is a false notion, right? We've sort of gotten away from these fundamental conversations around Conservation and lifestyle, and also shutting down polluters. So I think when you look at carbon capture, right, the idea is like, and again, I'm not the policy technical person, which will become evident when I say this, which is like carbon capture, right, just like, you know, getting all the bad stuff.
And putting it, you know, into the ground and having it disappear, right, which is like the oldest trick in the book when anyone, you know, when you're a kid and someone, your mom asks you to clean up your room and you take all of your things and you shove it under your bed or in a closet, like, I feel like it's that sort of same mentality, like the pollution is still there and it's going to have an impact in some way.
Way. And so I think us and Denise talks a lot about, you know, getting [00:27:00] back to those basics, right? We have to be able to look at ourselves, especially as the U S in terms of our habits and our behaviors, which, you know, transcends and leads the world in terms of what people aspire for. And so I think there's this mentality where.
We think we're saving the planet. If I drive my Tesla, even if I own 12 Teslas, I'm still saving the planet. And if I own four houses, and they're all energy efficient, you know, I'm still, you know, the better actor. And, and I think what she's getting at more is around those issues of like, we need to kind of get regrounded in the basics because, you know, Even any of these technologies have elements of extraction and waste, whether that's solar and wind, right?
There are materials that we are creating that need to be dealt with, and some of them have just significant implications on communities and on the planet.
Kiana Michaan: Absolutely. I always say, you Every technology has a shadow and of course even clean [00:28:00] energy is often dependent on the mining industry and a lot of ethically problematic things within the supply chain.
There's no perfect solution that said considering the level of what we're facing from the unfettered burning of fossil fuels. I think some of these technologies, even though they do have shadows and environmental justice challenges, which we need to address and improve on, they still are offering us a better path forward than the current trajectory we're on without those changes.
So I think it's, you know, it's, it's complex, um, and. I do have a lot of optimism and hope, uh, all mixed together in the, in all the climate emotions. And I think on this show, I like to talk about joy and justice, and I think what I love about also your show and Just Solutions is you're really focusing on the fact that we do have solutions, even if they're really [00:29:00] complicated.
So I'd love to know Okay. Who I have a bunch with, I have a bunch of questions I wanted to ask you about this. Okay. So I Sure, I'll just, I'll just jump into it now. Yeah. I'll start with what is giving you hope and optimism about a more equitable and just climate and energy future?
Aiko Schaefer: Yeah, I think the same. I have the same joy as you do.
And it really is about the communities that are really coming up with extraordinary solutions. You know, I think that they have been so overlooked, historically overlooked, historically damaged that there's this You know, there's this resiliency, right? There's this recognition that no one, you know, that they feel that no one's coming to save them.
And so they have been really coming together and figuring out what their community really needs and doing it with such doggedness, with such creativity, with such efficiency, that there's so much to learn there. You know, I think there's so much for us to figure [00:30:00] out from their experience and that if we actually invested in them, both.
Financially, but also in terms of their leadership in the movement. I think we would be able to solve this problem in ways that we haven't yet imagined. And that gives me a lot of hope and, you know, much like you having a podcast and having the chance to learn from them and hear them and elevate them into the space.
Although most of them don't need help me elevating them. They're already recognized leaders and yeah. Doing the work that has to happen in all sorts of important ways, but it just gives me such joy. And so when I talk to people who are really depressed about climate change, really down about, you know, the demise of our planet, I remind them that, you know, inspiration is all around us.
And we just have to, you know, See it and support it. And I think that we've got to get out of this place of feeling like the condition is so dire that there's nothing we can do and that our actions don't matter to recognize that there are extraordinary people out there that are sticking with it because they're dying now.
You [00:31:00] know, I mean, that's the difference is the climate movement talks about concern about a planet for our grandchildren, our children, the future communities that are leading are dying today, you know, their, their lifespans are shorter, the asthma rates are higher, the lack of clean air and water is more significant and urgent and immediate.
So they've been forced to figure out how to survive. And so I think there's much for us to learn. And at a minimum, they are a picture into our future, both the good and bad, right, of, of what we might be facing because of climate change and our reliance and, um, fossil fuels and the fossil fuel industry.
Kiana Michaan: Yeah, absolutely. A lot of, a lot of important things there. And that's why also I think the impact of, of storytelling is so important to share. And have the understanding of what is happening here and now and not just in the future and the circumstances that people and communities are facing. You mentioned [00:32:00] being inspired by Resiliency of communities.
I know just solutions has research and I believe a series focused on resilience, climate resiliency and its connection to lots of other issues. Could you share a little bit about that and some highlights from it?
Aiko Schaefer: Yeah, definitely. And again, you know, encourage people to go to our website. It's a report recently released by our team, um, Zully Juarez and Jennifer Moon called the perfect storm.
And it really recognizes that, you know, communities that are being impacted by climate change, which is a pretty significant challenge are the same communities that have a history of Of extraction and exploitation that the sort of the culmination of all of these historic harms, the very intentional policy decision decisions that have been made, put these communities at higher risk as we look at the impacts of climate change.
And so it really is the first attempt [00:33:00] to look at climate disasters to kind of understand the conditions that communities. Are in again, you know, because of historic decisions, lack of investments, lack of services. And so what is, what does that mean for communities and what are they experiencing? And again, because we're just solutions is really looking at, um, Case studies, some very specific solutions that communities have been putting forward that have had impact and so it gives you that overarching view, but leaves you with some specific things that could be done to address climate disasters.
Kiana Michaan: That's fantastic, and I appreciate how intersectional it is, that you're looking at sort of economic impact, health impact, just across the board, how can we think about how resiliency connects to all these pre existing structural issues due to decades of policy and it's a [00:34:00] needed work to think about how we can shift and improve resiliency moving forward.
Are there any other programs, reports, any work that the organization has done that you feel have been really foundational that you'd love to highlight?
Aiko Schaefer: Gosh, so many. I think that are leading with race work. So we have been working very closely to understand the implications of the Supreme Court's decision around affirmative action and implications around climate policy and climate investments and centering race in the climate work.
So there is. It's a web page that we have that has great resources for people to understand in the near term, sort of how they can work within that dynamic and to better understand the implications of the decision that was made. So when you think about your listeners who work in nonprofit organizations, philanthropy, even government, we're all impacted by the dismantling of affirmative action by the Supreme Court.
And so I wanted to be able to give, you [00:35:00] people resources around what that meant. And then again, what are some solutions that they could put in place to really continue to advance racial justice in the environmental climate space?
Kiana Michaan: Thank you for sharing that. That's really great to hear you have those resources.
So essentially this, this ruling, has the potential to take, I'm sure many fields, but in this, in this particular case, we're talking about climate and the environmental movement, a field that's already known to be not particularly diverse and sort of compound that issue, right? Because then there's less educational opportunities for, for students of color that have already been historically excluded from, from the educational system.
Aiko Schaefer: Definitely that. And then also it, It means that we can't use race as a factor when we design policy. So in Washington state, where I lived most of my life and in California, right? And I think the early 2000s voters decided to get rid of [00:36:00] affirmative action. And so what it means is that when you're designing climate policy, for example, You can't include race as an indicator, as a benefactor, as a focus of any policy.
And so if we're trying to do environmental justice, you know, we have to think about, well, how do we get at communities that we know are disproportionately impacted because they're black and brown? How do you move benefits, and how do you understand their condition if you can't use race in your work? And so there has been work to think about proxy variables, so to speak, but they are not the same.
They don't quite capture what we're needing to do. And so, yeah, the Affirmative Action decision is definitely about educational access, but more broadly it means that race cannot be used. As an aspect of it, it means, for example, women and minority owned businesses can't do that. Right. So all of those elements that really have advanced and really, you [00:37:00] know, repaired advanced, you know, made up for public policy damage and decisions to black and brown communities were repaired.
Beginning to be addressed under affirmative action and with the dismantling of that program. It means yes, anything in terms of public policy broadly, not just around education, but broadly eliminates race as a aspect of policy design approach and benefits.
Kiana Michaan: Yeah, that's a tremendous impact. I've worked with several minority women owned businesses in the clean energy space and even being like MWB certified or there's so much challenge for those small businesses to even get the same opportunities, right?
Aiko Schaefer: Yeah, that's huge. Exactly. And under this decision, our understanding is that you can't. You can't have those programs anymore. You can't intentionally guide resources or benefits to BIPOC women owned, uh, industries. Well, hopefully, [00:38:00] I'm like, You want to do a show on that? I'm happy to have some of our staff come on and talk about it.
It's, it's pretty extreme. Yeah. Yeah. I don't, I don't know if we understood the implications of the decision, but it's. It's very far reaching. It's very problematic.
Kiana Michaan: And yeah, there's so much more we could say for time's sake, though. I'm going to move us into some closing thoughts and also try to end on a slightly more optimistic note.
But as I mentioned, you are also a podcast host of the Just Solutions podcast, which I recommend that everyone go and check out. It's a phenomenal show. It's inspired me. I think I know in doing my show, I get so much joy and learn so much from having different guests and being able to then share those moments with the broader community, I think is a wonderful experience.
So I'm just curious to hear if you've had any sort of meaningful or impactful learning moments, whether it's through the podcast or through your role more [00:39:00] broadly, where you've had a moment of really just feeling the impact of, of your work.
Aiko Schaefer: Yeah. Oh, that's great. I, you know, I love having the podcast as the executive director of just solutions.
So much of my time is as an administrator, you know, fundraising, working with the board, working with staff that I often don't get to do the fun stuff. I don't get to really learn about the issues. So the podcast, uh, selfishly gives me the opportunity to engage with so many amazing, smart, impactful people.
I think. That every episode to me is just so great. And I feel so privileged to be part of a conversation with everybody who's been on our show. I think my favorite moments have been, you know, having guests who are climate experts, who are in particular BIPOC women, black women, because the climate movement has invested so much.
In this conversation of whether or not climate change is real that we think [00:40:00] often as the experts of climate change or climate solutions as being white male scientists and so to me the opportunity to really find people who are out there. Who don't look the part and they're able to really go toe to toe on climate technical information research policy to me is my favorite.
And so to be able to, you know, be with them and to hear their minds, um, or to understand their minds to witness their minds and in action has just been. It's just really great. And to be able to be part of putting them out there as leaders in the movement, it's just really been, like I said, a real privilege.
Kiana Michaan: That's so wonderful to hear. And I'm very much envisioning a climate and energy future grounded in more equitable, policy and led by so many incredible climate and environmental experts who are women of color. So thank you so much for the [00:41:00] work you're doing at Just Solutions and the work you're doing to elevate both these solutions and experts and leaders.
I deeply appreciate it. Thank you, Aiko. Yeah. Thank you for having me on the show. Thank you for listening. Climate with Kiana is hosted and produced by Kiana Michaan. This episode was edited and co produced by Lucy Little. Original theme music by Naima Mackrel. This podcast is recorded and produced in New York City on unceded Lenape land.
If you enjoyed the episode, please share it with a friend, leave a comment, and subscribe anywhere you listen to podcasts. For more information about the guests and topics discussed, please visit climatewithkiana. com. Until the next time, be well and stay [00:42:00] joyous.