In this episode, environmental justice educator and strategist Arielle King shares her recent experience at COP28 in Dubai in the United Arab Emirates. The conversation starts by exploring the importance of radical joy and imagination in climate work. Arielle was one of the organizers of the Entertainment & Culture Pavilion as well as Hope House at COP28. We discuss outcomes of the negotiations, the Loss & Damage fund, the Global Stocktake, the Fossil Fuel Non-Proliferation Treaty, and the role of protests at COP. Arielle shares the importance and impact of storytelling, art, culture, and collaboration in creating a just climate future.
In this episode, environmental justice educator and strategist Arielle King shares her recent experience at COP28 in Dubai in the United Arab Emirates. The conversation starts by exploring the importance of radical joy and imagination in climate work. Arielle was one of the organizers of the Entertainment & Culture Pavilion as well as Hope House at COP28. We discuss outcomes of the negotiations, the Loss & Damage fund, the Global Stocktake, the Fossil Fuel Non-Proliferation Treaty, and the role of protests at COP. Arielle shares the importance and impact of storytelling, art, culture, and collaboration in creating a just climate future.
Enjoy this special end of year extended episode to recap COP28 and the show will be back after the holidays!
Connect with Arielle:
Resources:
The Joy Report - Podcast - Intersectional Environmentalist
COP28 Entertainment + Culture Pavilion
Hope House COP28 | Time for Better
COP28 Agreement Signals “Beginning of the End” of the Fossil Fuel Era
Unpacking COP28: Key Outcomes from the Dubai Climate Talks, and What Comes Next
COP28 - Climate Justice Alliance
Environmental Justice In Palestine — Intersectional Environmentalist
All Out for Palestine - Digital Action Toolkit - Palestinian Feminist Collective
Fossil Fuel Non-Proliferation Treaty
Credits:
Hosted and produced by Kiana Michaan
Edited and co-produced by Lucy Little
Arielle King: [00:00:00] And I think that joy is also a really important mechanism for doing what I think is like, kind of the role of environmental advocates right now, which is to make the climate movement as irresistible as it can possibly be, um, so that we can attract as many people into this movement as possible. And so.
It has to be joyful. It has to be grounded in joy and not in grief or fear because those types of emotions just burn us out. Like, and that's not to say that we can't feel those things, but we should also be grounded in an understanding that we are doing this work out of a place of love, um, for ourselves, love for our communities, love for this planet. Um, and
a large part of that is. Connecting it to joy and just recognizing that the point that we're in right now is not the end.
Kiana Michaan: Hello, and welcome to Climate with Kiana, a podcast that [00:01:00] explores topics of climate, energy, and sustainability through a framework of joy and justice. I'm your host, Kiana Michaan, a climate justice and clean energy advocate. This show brings you conversations with passionate people working in climate. And together we explore the many exciting and intersectional solutions to one of the greatest challenges of our time.
So if you've ever felt overwhelmed by the climate crisis, these conversations are for you. Whether you're already a climate nerd or just climate curious, join me each week in an exploration of climate justice solutions. Let's cultivate hope and joy and vision new possibilities together.
Welcome back. In today's episode, I spoke with an amazing environmental educator and strategist, Arielle King, about her recent experience at COP28 in Dubai, as one of the organizers of the Entertainment and [00:02:00] Culture Pavilion and Hope House. But first, we started our conversation exploring how radical joy and imagination impacts our climate work and activism.
Why are radical joy and radical imagination important in climate work? What were the important and historic outcomes of COP28? What are some of the wins and shortcomings of the negotiations? And how do we continue to cultivate joy and hope even in the midst of high pressure and high stakes international negotiations?
This is a special episode to recap COP28, and so it may be a little longer than usual. Thank you for tuning in, and I hope you enjoy this discussion about COP28 and radical joy. Here's our conversation.
Arielle King: Well, thank you for having me. Um, yeah, I'm Arielle King. I would say these days I consider myself an environmental educator and strategist whose work kind of sits at the intersection of art, culture, and climate.
So, doing a little bit of everything in that space. [00:03:00] And so much of my work lately has revolved around the projects that I just completed, um, in Dubai for COP 28. But yeah, I mean, um, a little bit of background. I have, you know, a background in environmental law and policy. I got my law degree focused on environmental justice and civil rights law.
about two years ago, um, have since supported the development of organizations, entities, campaigns, um, help with like a lot of media and communications work in the climate space. So yeah, just quite literally a little bit of everything. And I just feel really grateful for the opportunity to, to be here on this podcast.
So thank you for having me.
Kiana Michaan: Thank you. And I really resonate with. The work you do, and I think having that policy knowledge and then applying that to that intersection of art and communications, um, and storytelling. is really important. And I've, you know, done [00:04:00] work in that space as well. And I appreciate the work you do.
A lot of your work connects joy and hope and storytelling to climate solutions, which is so important. And you had your show, The Joy Report, which I really loved and took a lot of inspiration from, um, so I'd love to hear from you why joy and this concept of radical joy is so crucial and important in climate movement building.
Arielle King: Sure. Um, I think that joy is one of the few You You know, resources that we have that can sustain us through this climate work and just understanding the gravity of the situation, but also the need for an emphasis on love and community care and like local action. So I think that, you know, when in creating the joy report, the podcast, we really focused on the value of storytelling, the value of amplifying our [00:05:00] stories, but also the value of sharing positive climate solutions in getting people to.
Become involved and feel like they can see themselves in this movement. Um, something, you know, there's all of this research that indicates that people are the most anxious about climate that they've ever been in human history. Um, you know, young people are experiencing climate anxiety at extreme levels.
For the first time ever, we are seeing You know, medical professionals and psychiatrists, psychologists, all of these people have to be trained in how to equip people with the tools necessary to cope with climate anxiety. And so we're in a very tumultuous state when it comes to just how we're interacting with.
The news that we are receiving about the climate crisis. Um, when it's reported on at all, it's almost always negative It's almost always about the doom and gloom. And so we created the joy report as an opportunity to Provide [00:06:00] an antidote to that and to provide people with very tangible um You know, achievable mechanisms and strategies to take action at a local and at a larger level, but also to demonstrate that solutions have always been in the works and that there are really meaningful things that are taking place that are actually moving the needle towards a just and sustainable world.
And so the more we're able to showcase those types of stories, the more I believe that the more People are involved and are willing to be involved in this movement, and I think that joy is also a really important mechanism for doing what I think is like kind of the role of environmental advocates right now Which is to make the climate movement as irresistible as it can possibly be so that we can attract as many people into this movement as possible and so It has to be joyful.
It has to be grounded in joy and not in grief or fear [00:07:00] because those types of emotions just burn us out. Like, and that's not to say that we can't feel those things, but we should also be grounded in an understanding that we are doing this work out of a place of love, um, for ourselves, love for our communities, love for this planet.
Um, and a large part of that is connecting it to joy and just recognizing that. The point that we're in right now is not the end and yeah, just like being able to connect with other people and to like demonstrate all of the positive things happening is just like one of the most necessary things that we can do in this moment.
Kiana Michaan: I love what you said about making the climate movement irresistible. Enjoy being a part of that. And that does make me think about that intersection of art and creativity and climate solutions. So I wanted to expand upon what we were just saying about radical joy. And like, can you talk a little bit about that intersection of joy and radical imagination and hope and [00:08:00] Afrofuturism?
Because I think it's such a rich topic. When we're thinking about making the movement irresistible, juicy, and, and exploring creative outlets to express the complex emotions that we're all experiencing as we're living through this.
Arielle King: Absolutely. I mean, storytelling. Has always been a focal point of black culture.
Right. And so like in the movement for Afrofuturism, there is an element of unearthing the past, um, being able to reflect the present and also to showcase what a future could look like where we are in our like most full, beautiful, loved, held, liberated, liberated, liberated. selves. And so, um, I mean, and that is also the work of radical imagination.
It's like existing in the world as it is and daring to believe that something better is possible. And yeah, I feel, I believe that black people, like as a culture, we have been existing as, you know, I guess ideologies, or at [00:09:00] least examples of radical imagination forever, like literally forever. The way that we have had to endure some of the most awful, treacherous circumstances, but believing that the next generation wouldn't have to endure or wouldn't have to struggle as hard and being able to put in the work to try to make that a reality.
That has always been a part of our lived experience, especially in the United States. And so, um, I mean, it's all deeply connected. And I believe that when we're thinking about radical imagination in climate and then like the climate action, climate activism space, that is the only way that we are going to be able to create.
new world as if we're actually like talking about them, speaking about them, thinking about what they would feel like, identifying like what some of the rules might be like in that new world, what things we don't want to see, but what things must be present, and really articulating and getting very clear on what the [00:10:00] present is.
Or what the future can look like, um, because otherwise we will be stuck in this feeling of depression and, um, just feel like stunned into an action if we are not thinking about possibilities and like what better worlds could look like. And so I'm always inspired by the artists and the writers who are helping us reimagine new, better worlds.
Kiana Michaan: For more of our conversation on radical imagination, joy and Afrofuturism.
Stay tuned for some bonus content in the weeks ahead. From here, we talked about Ariel's recent experience at COP28 in Dubai. The Conference of the Parties, also known as the COPs, are annual meetings hosted by the United Nations as a meeting for the parties to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change.
The UNFCCC is the global treaty to stabilize greenhouse gas emissions, which was established in 1992. The COP conferences are the largest global climate [00:11:00] negotiations. The first COP was held in 1995, and the COP rotates between countries in the different UN recognized global regions. Important international agreements to address climate change are agreed upon at each COP through the consensus of the negotiators of all the parties to the treaty.
Historic agreements have come out of the COPs over the years, such as the Paris Accords or Paris Agreement in 2015. Let's get into all about this year's 2023 COP 28. Welcome back from COP 28. Thank you. Um, I think there's a lot to talk about there. Obviously, I did not attend, but was following along to the best of my ability.
Um, I guess the first question was, was this your first COP?
Arielle King: Um, it was my second COP. I went to COP26 in Glasgow, um, which was a very different experience for a lot of different reasons. I think just like sociopolitically, it was a different space that we were in, like the ability to [00:12:00] protest in the streets, um, in Scotland versus like not being able to do such a thing in the UAE.
Was interesting and just like I don't know there were just a lot of differences and it's been noted that this is the largest cop there's ever been And it really showed like everything was like very separated You know there were all of these pavilions. There were all of these things that were taking place.
Um, and it was very disjointed. I mean, a lot of this stuff was like in buildings very separate from everything else. And so I think one of the things that the venue in Scotland afforded us was the ease of access to all of these different places. Um, so that, you know, you might accidentally wander into an activation or an event or a, uh, a panel discussion that you.
wouldn't have ordinarily and you learn a lot. And so there just like wasn't a lot of space for that to take place. Um, [00:13:00] yeah. And just like in terms of accessibility, it was just like hard to walk everywhere and it was very hot. And so, you know, I, there's, there's a lot going on, but that was definitely like one of the first reactions, um, that I had was just how enormous, the venue was and how many people were, were involved this year.
Kiana Michaan: I know accessibility has always been an issue at COPS, but it does clearly vary based on the host country and the venue. But clearly it's a very complex space in that there are a lot of positive things that come out of the COPS.
Arielle King: Yeah.
Kiana Michaan: You know, there was historic outcomes to this one, um, and there's massive challenges, frustrations, sort of, just rehashing out the same limitations of the system.
You, I know you were very involved in organizing two major events, the inaugural entertainment and culture pavilion, and then also one of the organizers for the [00:14:00] Hope House. So can you talk a little bit about what both of these were, how it went, and what was your Um, Vision and intention going into the cop.
Arielle King: Sure. Um, so I'll start with that last question because I think it grounds like explaining both of the entities that I was involved in. So my intention for cop 28 was to support the cultivation of spaces that centered it. wellness, justice, art, and joy. Um, and like, and I feel really gratified that I was able to do that.
Um, and yeah, and that also felt very different than my first cop where I was very alone, I didn't really have a plan. So, just like going in with a lot of grounding. Made a world of difference for me in terms of like my safety and just like understanding my My place there and [00:15:00] just like understanding what my role was and what I was supposed to be there to do.
So Yeah, very grateful for that opportunity. So I'll start with Hope House so the Hope House was a side event venue that was brought to Dubai by the, um, youth led climate communications agency, Time for Better, and this is the second time that Time for Better has hosted a Hope House during a COP, um, and it was beautiful.
There were, you know, multiple days of activations and events and programs with topics that ranged from the energy transition, we had a day actually on the energy transition, and it's just really awesome. Um, that included like conversations about nuclear, which I learned a lot about nuclear. Um, during that session, I, I feel like a lot of people in the environmental space are either adamantly against or like very uncertain about nuclear.
And I feel like I got a lot of my questions answered. [00:16:00] by, like, nuclear engineers through the, like, um, Nuclear Energy Institute. Um, so that was one aspect.
Kiana Michaan: I definitely, I'll say I definitely have my thoughts on nuclear. Sure. I was actually at an event with a lot of clean energy professionals and we were having some, like, arguments about nuclear and that it is It's it's contentious.
Arielle King: It is
Kiana Michaan: the environmental space. And
Arielle King: no, it is. Um, and I think
Kiana Michaan: I guess without getting too much into my hot take, I'm like, how many, how many wild hot takes should I start throwing out here on the podcast?
Arielle King: I don't know your podcast, but yeah, as many as you like.
Yeah. I think I'm like a little shy to, you know, as I'm just starting the show.
But, um, I think the, the short version is that I think Nuclear does have an important role to play in the energy transition as zero carbon baseload power, um, not to minimize its risks or the history of environmental justice with it in any way, but I do think that [00:17:00] it's complex, it's politically contentious, and it's sometimes, I think, gets more negativity and it deserves.
Yeah. Um, it's it's a fascinating topic. I think, um, there are a lot of environmental justice concerns and I brought a lot of them up to the folks who were at the nuclear event. I think it's really important to Um, to critique all of these solutions and just, like, recognize that we can't just focus on one solution in order to, like, create the change that's necessary for this movement.
Um, and I think the phasing out of fossil fuels and our transition to renewable energy requires a diversity of resources, a diversity of thought and like a diversity of mechanisms. And so I was excited to see like the new nuclear be a part of the conversation. Um, so heavily this year during cop.
Kiana Michaan: Yeah. I just wanted to say really quickly about your comment about Diversity [00:18:00] of solutions.
I like the analogy, which I don't remember where I heard this originally, so I'm not taking credit for this analogy, but that we need our energy system to be like a well balanced diet. I like that. But it's really about a diversity of resources. And having that flexibility and resiliency that comes with, with a diversity and every technology and solution has a shadow.
Nothing is perfect, which is further. Absolutely. Furthers the need to have a balance of, you know, resources that have different pros and cons.
Arielle King: Totally. Yeah. Um, and that's so real. And I think, you know, something that I was talking to somebody about. Recently was the fact that like, you know, 10 years ago, no one would have ever thought that people were criticizing or would be criticizing solar as like a viable solution or like integration into like, you know, our [00:19:00] renewable energy grids and energy systems.
Um, we, I don't think we could have imagined there being so much. Wind and like, you know, wind turbines around that, like people are now trying to oppose their construction.
Kiana Michaan: NIMBY, which stands for Not In My Backyard, is an opposition movement of the siting of infrastructure projects close to homes and residential areas.
NIMBYism has heavily impacted the energy industry, in particular wind energy and large scale solar developments. Nimbyism raises important questions about land rights, community rights, health and safety, the power of governments and private companies, and environmental justice. How do we balance the needs of residential communities and the collective need for the expansion of infrastructure?
These are challenges that will continue to play out across the globe throughout the energy transition.
Arielle King: And I think that that shows the power of public opinion and also shows the, um, [00:20:00] importance of. I think, um, you know, we, we talk about this 2030 target being like a really momentous marker and it is, um, and then I also hear people talking about how like time is of the essence and, you know, we don't have any time.
Seven, seven years isn't enough time to like create any change. But I think about all of the technological advances we've seen in the last seven years. I think about, you know, The societal advances we've seen, the policy advancements, I think there's been such tremendous progress from seven years ago to now that there's no choice but for there to be like really impactful progress, um, over the next seven years, especially with it now being such a direct and concerted effort to make the climate solutions.
Yeah, I, I just think there's. There's so much space for progress, um, over the next seven years as we are heading towards [00:21:00] this, like, critical tipping point of 2030. Um, I think that there have been, like, so many tremendous advancements in technology, environmental law and policy, in reform, in structures, and in just understanding, um, when it comes to justice and collaboration.
From seven years ago that I feel like very confident that there's going to be like more really positive Action that happens over these next seven years Especially now that it's a more concerted effort because so many people now recognize the need for and the sense for of urgency That's required. So I'm staying hopeful.
Um, I think the the It's very interesting because, you know, the language of, like, the just transition, it was used a lot during COP, um, and the, like, draft negotiations, like, the draft final negotiations that came out maybe two, three days [00:22:00] before the last day of COP had no mention of the just transition, had no mention of phasing out fossil fuels, had no mention of any of those things that You know, the, the cop president and like multiple world leaders had been kind of alluding to like would be included.
And also that is actually required to like commit to real climate action. And so, um, there was a massive campaign to ensure that there was at least an acknowledgement of fossil fuels in the final negotiations. And that was achieved, um, which many people are now considering. You know, the beginning of the end of fossil fuels.
Um, I don't know if I would take it that far. Like, sure. Like, I think it is a huge deal that this is the first time that like a phase out of or a transition away from fossil fuels has been acknowledged. Um, at a cop, um, it's frightening that it took 28 years for that. To take place. Um, [00:23:00] and just like thinking about like what progress is required.
I think even with this like very historic addition of that language to the document, there are still like a tremendous amount of shortcomings like for these final negotiations and a lot of what's required will still take a lot of time. And. A lot of the, like, frontline nations don't, don't have time. And so, like, what would it look like to, like, really meaningfully engage with, support, and hold, um, the, the nations that are most at risk and who have experienced the most tremendous loss already?
Um, how do we, like, support them and hold them and make sure that they are, um, adapting and also mitigating as much as possible. Um, one of the other like really meaningful outcomes that came out of cop this year was the loss and damages fund. Um, which is also like on [00:24:00] paper, very. momentous and like very exciting, but there are also like really big shortcomings.
Kiana Michaan: The Loss and Damage Fund is a new UN fund that was established last year at COP 27 with the intention to provide monetary aid to countries in the global south to address the unavoidable and growing impacts from climate change. Countries that have contributed the most to the climate crisis. have a moral responsibility to pay for the loss and damages in countries that have contributed the least emissions yet bear the heaviest burdens of the negative impacts of climate change.
Global financing of climate mitigation and adaptation continue to fall short by billions of dollars. So the hope is that this newly created loss and damage fund will help to fill some of the gaps in global climate financing. COP28 was the first time that countries were asked to pledge and commit financial contributions to the fund.
Arielle King: You know, people have advocated for this for so long, and so I'm really excited that it now [00:25:00] exists, that there actually is a loss and damage fund. Um, one of the pitfalls of the loss and damage fund is that it only helps pay for damages that are already caused by the climate crisis. Um, which means that it is very reactionary, um, and not preventative.
And so there isn't. Funding that's going directly towards mitigation adaptation, um, and all of that really necessary work that a lot of these like small island nations and other like frontline communities and countries. So desperately need it's also important to note that the funds that are accessed there alone and not a grant and so, um, and for some of the like, um, challenges here, I know.
And like for some of the issues, um, some, there's an expectation of matching some of the funds. And so it's just, there's so many barriers to entry and. You know, accessing these funds might mean that a country is going into even more debt, um, [00:26:00] to try to recover from a climate catastrophe. So it's, it's tremendous progress.
We're really excited about it. But I, I am worried. Um, also it's just not nearly enough money, um, for what's required. So, so far, um, what was committed to at COP was like 650 million dollars. Um, but researchers have estimated that countries need anywhere between 290 to 580 billion every year, um, by 2030 in order to like actually support the countries who have been most harmed and will continue to be most harmed by the climate crisis.
And so that's a quite a large discrepancy. And I just think about like all of the other uses of funds that we're seeing right now, um, by the countries that should be committing the most money to the Loss and Damages Fund. I think about, you know, money going toward funding [00:27:00] wars and money that's going directly from taxpayer dollars to subsidizing the fossil fuel industry.
Like, fossil fuel subsidies in the last year have reached the trillions in the United States. And like, I just think about what that money could be used for on a national and also on a global scale, um, to commit to really like collective community care and restoration and like mitigation and adaptation efforts.
And there's, there's just like a lot to be thought about. There's a lot to consider and there's a lot that still has to be done.
Kiana Michaan: I share your concerns in terms of the progress being great, that we have the loss and damage fund now, and the contributions that have been put in are a drop in the bucket. I believe the US committed only 17 million dollars, which is frankly insulting.
Um, and as you said, like, small island nations, many communities, [00:28:00] we don't have the time. And then you were mentioning a lot of this being very reactionary, right? Of like, okay, how do we react to now it's essentially a disaster because we didn't prevent it? And how Do we approach this in a way that is preventative and caring, right?
So that the reactionary part ends up being the smallest part of that equation. Obviously, we're like so deep into the climate crisis. But also, yeah, these, this idea about, I think, where the money is going, like when we're looking at the budgets of countries, right? I feel like these budgets are essentially moral documents.
And the scale of funding we need is so great. I feel like there's a misunderstanding in the sense of like, on a, I guess, more national example, like the IRA, that's billions of dollars, that's not going to cover the entire decarbonization of the U. S. It's like two thirds of it, right? And so yes, these costs seem high, but it's higher if we don't [00:29:00] actually address the problem, because then it will get worse and the costs will be higher.
And countries all the time are going into debt. For worse things. Um, like you said that subsidies are at an all time high for fossil fuels. So it's like, how do we actually have more sort of ethical value alignment of where countries are allocating their money? Because that actually says this is how much we care about the human lives of our countries.
Of our neighboring countries of global communities and that alignment isn't there. This year's COP was important for many reasons. One of them being that it is the first year of the global stock take. The global stock take is a check that will occur every five years moving forward to assess the progress of all countries nationally determined contributions or NDCs.
These NDCs, which were established in the Paris Accord, along with the global stock [00:30:00] take, are national targets for greenhouse gas emissions reductions that are set by each country that is party to the agreement. While NDCs remain critical to the success of the Paris Accord, unfortunately they are non binding legally.
and therefore unenforceable. I asked Arielle to share her experience of the conversation and atmosphere around the global stock take on the ground at COP28.
Arielle King: Yeah, um, I mean, there were protests, like, to ensure that there was, like, specific language added. Like, an acknowledgement of fossil fuels and the global stock take is really necessary, and the fact that that was, like, not included, the fact that, you know, there, There were just like all of these challenges there was a initially there was supposed to be a lot more strict language about coal, for example, and like in the final, um, you know, negotiations and the outcomes for the global stock take it weakened the coal phase out language to from like [00:31:00] rapidly phasing out unabated coal and limitations on permitting to just maintaining or mentioning efforts toward the phase down of unabated coal.
And so like so much of the language got watered down at the very last minute. Um, and yet that was still considered a win. And so it's just so hard. Um, I, and I think. One of my long term gripes with the UN, just like, as an entity, is the non binding power that they have, um, just the fact that, you know, countries can sign on in agreement of things, they can, you know, say no, they can be in opposition, and Or they can decide to not sign on, they can back out, um, part way as we saw the U.
S. do when Trump was in office for the Paris Agreement, and so, you know, there's, there's no real accountability that takes place, and that's why the global stock take was so important, um, because it was a Yeah, that's great. A mechanism to ensure that we are like [00:32:00] effectively analyzing what's necessary, but as you mentioned, I mean, it's, it's hard because there's no requirement for reporting.
There's no like consistent measure for doing so. I, you know, the UN was designed to be an entity that was It's supposed to create and be like a collaboration force and source like amongst all of the countries of the world. Or I wish that their power had more strength, um, and I, and I want there to be like greater accountability.
I want a lot of these things to be binding. Um, I want there to be like stronger commitments. I want there to be all of these things because we, we really don't have the time to just sit around and like talk about these things anymore. I mean, like the fact that the loss and damages fund, it took this long for that to like actually be on the table is such a challenge.
Um, and you know, like I said, this was the biggest cop that there's ever been. And, you know, multiple activists have talked about the fact [00:33:00] that moving forward, cops should not be getting bigger. We should be like. Dialing down the amount of people who are at these global negotiations so that people can focus on what's happening in their countries and really like look inward and like hold their like elected officials and the leaders and people in power more accountable so that real action can take place has a lot to do with what we were talking about and just like the value of community and understanding like who your community is and like What community you have the most influence with to be able to like help hold those in power accountable.
Kiana Michaan: I asked Arielle to share about the fossil fuel non proliferation treaty Which is a proposed treaty to end the expansion of oil coal gas and transition away from fossil fuels The treaty has been endorsed by about a dozen countries.
Most of them small island nations It has also been endorsed by hundreds of elected officials, local city governments, and NGOs across the globe. Advocacy for [00:34:00] this treaty has been taking place for several years, and COP28 saw Colombia join as the first major nation to endorse the Fossil Fuel Non Proliferation Treaty.
Arielle King: During Dubai's COP28, they were the largest country to sign on. So, in addition to Colombia's signing, um, during COP. Samoa, um, formally joined like a block of nation states who are seeking a negotiating mandate for a treaty. Um, Yeah, like Columbia actually signed on and like called for the treaty at the high level party event that happened and then Palau also, um signed on and so yeah And like prior to that there was like a lot of movement and action from states that happened like during COP 20 27 in in Egypt last year and yeah, there's just like I don't know.
It's really interesting. [00:35:00] I was helping, um, with like a social media campaign about the fossil fuel nonproliferation treaty over a year ago, and I feel like there was nowhere near the amount of momentum as we're seeing right now, um, with it, and it's just been like really exciting and inspiring to see because in addition to you.
Like states, um, and countries like making sure that their voices were heard. There's also like individual elected officials who have signed on, um, and like state heads of state, ministers, special envoys from all over the world who are like making it their mission to hold their governments accountable.
So it's been like very exciting, um, and very I don't know, I think the momentum for this is really great right now.
Kiana Michaan: As we explore the many challenges of COP28, I asked Arielle to share what her experience was of the almost 2, 000 fossil fuel lobbyists who were present at the COP, as well as the role of climate justice [00:36:00] protests and ceasefire protests that occurred during the negotiations.
The wars across the globe are heartbreaking human rights atrocities, and militaries remain some of the largest emitters globally. Thus, protests remain an active part of the many calls to action at COP.
Arielle King: As it relates to the fossil fuel lobbyist, I will say I think online there was a lot greater reaction to it than in person.
I think because everything was so spread out, I don't think Most of us even saw like fossil fuel lobbyists, um, present, which is a challenge, but I know that quite a bit of, um, you know, youth climate activists and other folks had like stickers that we added to our badges that like said not paid for by the fossil fuel industry.
Um, and we, we made very clear and, and something else I could think along that same vein was just like the really beautiful acts of solidarity, like in [00:37:00] what people were wearing, um, in support of a ceasefire and in support of the people of Palestine. I thought it was just really. exciting to be able to see like this global amount of solidarity.
So yeah, like the biggest protest that we had inside of COP, um, was calling for a ceasefire and calling for just climate justice in every sense of the word. And a lot of the chants had to do with, you know, human rights being required for climate justice and how, you know, this is a human rights violation and, uh, an environmental violation and every other type of violation imaginable.
Um, and how, you know, our, our liberation is wrapped up in everyone else's. And so there were a lot of, um, people from all over the world who talked about atrocities that were happening in their own places or the ways that historically their land has been destroyed and how they've seen this pattern before in their own homes and on their own lands.
Um, and what that looks like and what it feels like and what it [00:38:00] means to actually. Like stand and to, and to resist. And so it was just like really powerful. Um, and then like throughout, you saw a lot of people like with their watermelon jewelry and the people were wearing their scarves and it was just, um, That was exactly what I expected to see, and I, like, am really glad that people, like, lived up to my expectation.
I talked to a few people who were like, Oh, like, I'm surprised at how many people are, like, showing solidarity in this place. And I was just like, why? I think, like, the global climate movement, like, the people, like, the climate justice movement as we know it, like, of course we're going to advocate for the liberation of all people.
Right. Like, of course, we're going to advocate for a free Palestine and for land back and all of these things, because those are what, like the foundation of this. Climate justice movement are, which is grounded in the movement, like the environmental justice movement in the U. S. [00:39:00] Which was created as a direct result of the civil rights movement.
Like it's always been about people and about equal rights, equal access, sovereignty, self determination, like all of these things have always existed in the movement for climate justice. And so of course, We're going to be supporting like a free and liberated Palestine. And so that was beautiful, um, and really meaningful.
I would say in addition to that, I talked to a lot of people who talked about their like feelings leading up to COP, like especially just recognizing that the president of this COP, um, is aligned with, you know, a ginormous oil company. Um, and the fact that it was like the actual location of cop is in like such a huge place for oil.
Um, and just like, you know, the petro industry, um, and the fact that Dubai as a city specifically was like. built on [00:40:00] oil money. Right. And like, you know, and, and I've been like reading about Dubai for like over 10 years and it's just like one of the most fascinating places. And like, I went to one of the, the like Burj Khalifa, like one of the tallest building in the world.
And I, like, I looked down from the 125th floor and I was just like, it is so gray here. Like the fact that this city is so new and they had the option and the opportunity to like, Meaningfully create, like, worlds and cities in a way that is, like, just inclusive and green and, like, really be imaginative with what that could look like and didn't, like, hurts me every single day.
And so, like, being there and seeing that in person really just, like, blew my mind. And it's so interesting because now, like, Dubai is at a point that, like, They're planning and developing a city within a city that has, like, all of these, like, green elements and all of this.
Kiana Michaan: Design and being our architects of the future, how we're crafting these [00:41:00] solutions is so critical.
And I've been really thinking more about design and all its facets and how it contributes to our solution building. So I think it is really fascinating to see. how different places and spaces approach design in specific historical political contexts and allow that to like inform how critical it is to think about these pieces as we're crafting solutions.
Arielle King: Because I went in with very specific intentions, um, it's just like I understand how these negotiations happen. I understand. And, you know, there are so many climate activists, um, who talked about like coming to COP every year and just anticipating heartbreak and like anticipating having to like pour out your heart and soul, um, for there to be like very minimal results that are leading to like real change.
Um, I also think it's really interesting that, you know, uh, Okay. A conference that's focused [00:42:00] on sustainability, um, doesn't ensure that there is, like, sustainability amongst the attendees. I feel like, um, it is one of the few times where, like, no matter who you talk to, they're outrageously exhausted because they've been, like, in meetings running around doing stuff for, like, All day, you know, most people are getting like four or five hours of sleep, if that.
Um, people aren't eating on their like standard schedules, like, we're just not taking care of ourselves during this time. Um, and then we're expected to like show up and like be our best selves and like advocate on our own behalves, like, time and time again, and it, I don't know, I just, I find that so troubling and so that's why I was just one so grateful to be a part of like these two entities that were like focused on making sure that we were, um, healing ourselves and making sure that we were well in the midst of all of that, um, like at the Entertainment and Culture Pavilion, which was in the Blue Zone.
Kiana Michaan: The Blue Zone [00:43:00] refers to the area at COP where all official meetings, negotiations, sessions, press conferences, and other events take place. The zone is managed by UN Climate Change and can only be accessed by admitted observers, accredited press, party delegations, and heads of state.
Arielle King: We had daily mindfulness practices, um, you know, that happened and were led by people and cultural workers and spiritual guides from all over the world.
And it was so necessary to just have like a space to breathe and to meditate and to stretch. Um, and that's just like, I, I hope and my hope and dream for COP moving forward is that some of the love that we poured into that space kind of permeates throughout and that there's like spaces for wellness throughout COP moving forward.
I don't know. I, I just, I hope moving forward that that is like something that we see more of because there is such a great need for it, especially like when people are, you know, pouring their hearts and souls out and talking about the harms that [00:44:00] they're, Homes are experiencing and the the crises that are and the the risks and you know I heard from multiple people who talked about how much of a risk it was for them to even come to cop and how they Spent days getting there and you know they left their villages or their homes that don't even have Wi Fi to be able to be here and like Make sure that the interests of their communities were being heard and integrated into the final negotiations.
And so to see, you know, such watered down language is really disheartening, like knowing that there are people who are like literally suffering right now and sacrificing their, their time and their safety to be able to be here. So I don't know, I think. Every cop is a, um, uh, an act and like a, a challenge of, um, balancing good and bad and balancing, um, truth [00:45:00] and necessity.
I think there's just like, yeah, I, I, I don't think that we need to just like stop having. Cop I but I think that we need to be more intentional about like how and why it's being used and like to emphasize the value of the storytelling that takes place there
Kiana Michaan: with all of that in mind. Can you talk a little bit more about some of the highlights and the impact of the entertainment and culture pavilion and kind of what what events or moments left you feeling really hopeful and inspired?
Arielle King: Yeah, I think one of the most Mm hmm. impactful things that I heard someone say about the pavilion, like someone he had just finished giving like a talk talk back, like after his like really impactful, um, short film screening, um, about droughts in Peru, like in the Andes. Um, and he talked about how Everyone that he talked to during COP that year had [00:46:00] mentioned being connected to the pavilion in some way or another.
And, like, I mean, talk about impact! I mean, for, like, the first year of an entity to, like, have that much impact is just so tremendous. But I think it really spoke to, like, Who brought the space together, um, like how we did outreach and like, why? So I mean, so speaking to all of those three, like it was a collective of individuals who work kind of across industries, but are all really grounded in the value of storytelling, media and entertainment in climate action.
And so, um, you know, we had impact strategists and people who talk about like, Um, climate propaganda and people who like focus on filmmaking. Um, and so it was just like such a beautiful just array of expertise, um, within a very specific niche. And so, and that brought together. You know, people from [00:47:00] all over the world, like the team, it was, um, quite a challenge to do planning because like we were all in so many different time zones, but I mean, it, it all paid off because the amount of feedback that we received, um, just.
people showcasing and highlighting and being grateful for the diversity of programming that we were able to do. Like we had over a hundred programs that happened like over the course of the, the 12 days of COP. Um, and that's like pretty unprecedented and like most other pavilions were not doing that much programming, but you know, we, We made it an effort to extend, um, the opportunity for as many people to be involved with the pavilion as possible.
Um, and we incorporated art that was submitted from people all over the world. Um, and so every day there was new artwork being showcased, um, at the pavilion and there were just so many opportunities for like collaboration and connection [00:48:00] and community, um, and people. It felt like a grounding place for so many people, like so many people would like leave, like go do their other things and then just like immediately come back to the pavilion, because I think it was just, again, like who, who was there, like what we offered and what we created in the safe space that we created there.
Um, also like the content that we were producing. I had the opportunity to moderate a discussion on, um, you know, on greenwashing in the climate movement and in climate media. I got to host a fireside chat with the U. S. EPA administrator, Michael Regan, which was really awesome. Um, and that was on kind of like justice, youth and storytelling.
And I got to invite my friend Sage Lanier to be a part of that conversation. And Sage is an incredible climate activist whose work is really focused on climate education and accessible climate education in colleges. Um, I got to help with a screening of Youth v. [00:49:00] Gov, um, in, at COP, um, and have, be a part of a talkback and conversation with a, um, A lawyer based in Spain.
And so we like talked about the different perspectives of like youth led court cases and like holding the government's accountable and the right to a healthy environment and what that looks like in terms of like adding it to, um, state constitutions and all of that. And so that was really exciting. Um, I loved all of the film screenings that we had, but, um, some, one of the most impactful parts, I believe in that movie was just Just showing the evolution, the ebbs and flows of, uh, the United States government's approaches to climate solutions and how like a, um, a surge in like oil prices or just like oil access led to a complete shift of the ways that we were like developing energy.
Um, you know, there was like. A [00:50:00] shortage of oil. And instead of like heading back toward the trajectory of like going towards renewables, we just went crazy with coal production instead. And like, you know, in the 70s and 80s, there were solar panels on the White House like for a time, like way before the 2000s.
And so, yeah, it's just like really disheartening to see the way that Um, fossil fuels have like in the fossil fuel industry has really contributed to the way that we interact with the world and the ways that we can adapt to the climate crisis or the ways that we can respond to what is happening currently that's being caused by the fossil fuel industry.
And we had events. Um, just just so many different types of programming. We had a fashion show like there was just so much happening. We had um, a queering climate event. We had an event about the symbiocene.
Kiana Michaan: The [00:51:00] symbiocene refers to a vision for an emerging geological age after the Anthropocene. The Anthropocene is categorized by human activity having fundamentally shifted and changed the world around us on a planetary scale.
The Symbiocene envisions a time when humans, non human kin, and the Earth live in symbiosis. An age where the interconnected nature of life on Earth leads to more sustainable ways and systems of living.
Arielle King: I really just think that, like, it speaks to how we need everyone involved in this movement, and, like, the role of media and entertainment in climate action is to normalize.
Climate solutions and to like make and again is to like make all of this like work so irresistible that like people have no choice but to want to be involved. Um, and yeah, it was like really interesting to see like what that looked like and what that felt like, um, in person and you know, to see like all [00:52:00] of the work that the team put in like really.
It was worth it. Um, and to just like see the progress and also the growth and also our planning for next year. It's like, okay, how do we make this bigger? How do we strategize more intentionally? How do we create, um, end products and like white papers and things that come out of the like round table discussions that we were having at the pavilion.
Um, so yeah, there's just like a lot of space for growth, but I'm just so incredibly proud of the team for like pulling off like what we were able to accomplish.
Kiana Michaan: Congratulations on such a successful event. It sounds like it had really meaningful impact, which will clearly. stay with all the attendees and ripple out even further through, you know, social media and what is shared online.
And yeah, I think media and storytelling, it's so valuable and I agree that I think there's going to be Like a cultural renaissance when [00:53:00] it comes to climate media, and I think we're living in the beginning of it. So I too am excited to see this continue to blossom and hopefully contribute in some way.
And to close to close out our conversation, I will ask you what is giving you hope enjoy and inspiration for the future of climate justice?
Arielle King: Yeah, um, I'm incredibly inspired by young people and I know that's like such a cliche thing to say, but I like, I don't know. I think this year in particular, I've just been like so.
Excited about how like young people are just like, actually, we're not taking this anymore. And they're like actively holding the government accountable, actively protesting. I mean, the, um, the march to end fossil fuels in New York City, where there were 75, 000 plus attendees. I mean, that was led by high school students, you know, and I think like, just the, the [00:54:00] amount of, Progress and hope is just like keeping me like super inspired and like if somebody half my age or you know, like quite some Some years younger than me is able to keep going and they have, like, enough strength to be able to hold the government accountable, hold companies accountable, to support boycotts, to start boycotts, um, and to, like, really demand change and to, like, sue the government and do all of these things, then, yeah, I'm, I'm gonna have to keep going, right?
Because I, I'm One, I want to be able to, like, show and share some of the learnings that I've developed over the years, like, in my activism work. And I also want to be a connecting force between, like, the older generations and, like, those who are now, like, coming up in this movement. I think one of the biggest challenges of movement building is, like, retaining institutional knowledge and also, like, [00:55:00] sharing, um, stories and sharing strategies.
Amongst generations because there tends to be like generational communication divides and like ideology divides that I think fragment us in ways that are counterproductive and so I feel like Because I am like very deeply entrenched in the history the learnings of, you know, the environmental justice movement as it started out.
Um, and I was trained by a lot of the, you know, who are now considered quote unquote elders, which like, I don't know, I resist that term. And also just seeing the progress that we're seeing and the ways that we are shifting towards, um, A society that emphasizes and values storytelling, even though it's always been like a really effective mechanism for connection, collaboration, building empathy, sharing information, like all of this stuff.
Policy change. Um, I think there's a greater emphasis. And understanding that that is required now and [00:56:00] so I'm really inspired by that as well. This work has to be grounded in love and there's so many ways for it to go awry, but like if you're like grounded in the central idea that you are doing this work from a place of love, then I think that can like transcend the like communication barriers and like the ideology.
Discrepancies and differences, um, and really like make sure that we are grounded in like a common understanding that like, yeah, we are doing this work because we love this planet because we love being able to go and see the national parks as they are. We love being able to like breathe clean air. We want the next generation to breathe cleaner air than we're breathing right now.
Right. And so that that requires love. And so we, we have to keep operating in that. in that mindset, um, in order to be effective.
Kiana Michaan: Thank you for listening to this episode on Radical Joy and COP28 with Arielle King. For [00:57:00] more information and resources on today's guests and the topics discussed, please check out the show notes. See you next week with another episode, and until then, be well and be joyous.
Climate with Kiana is hosted and produced by me, Kiana Michaan. This episode was co produced and edited by Lucy Little. Theme music by Colette Michaan. This podcast is recorded and produced in New York City on unceded Munsee Lenape land. If you enjoyed the episode, please share it with a friend, leave a comment, and subscribe anywhere you listen to podcasts.
For more information about the guests and topics discussed, please visit climatewithkiana. com.