A discussion of solar development and policy in New York State with Noah Ginsburg, executive director of New York Solar Energy Industries Association (NYSEIA). In this episode, we talk about the challenges and solutions regarding incentives, interconnection, and equitable distribution of solar deployment across the state. We also explore the impacts of the Climate Leadership and Community Protection Act (CLCPA), the Climate Mobilization Act, and the Inflation Reduction Act (IRA).
A discussion of solar development and policy in New York State with Noah Ginsburg, executive director of New York Solar Energy Industries Association (NYSEIA). In this episode, we talk about the challenges and solutions regarding incentives, interconnection, and equitable distribution of solar deployment across the state. We also explore the impacts of the Climate Leadership and Community Protection Act (CLCPA), the Climate Mobilization Act, and the Inflation Reduction Act (IRA).
Connect with Noah:
Resources:
New York Solar Energy Industries Association
Expanding Local Clean Energy Could Save New York $28 Billion by 2050 - Vote Solar
Climate Leadership and Community Protection Act
NY State Senate Bill 2019-S6599
Inflation Reduction Act Guidebook | Clean Energy | The White House
Clean Energy Training Resources - NYSERDA
NY-Sun Solar Program - NYSERDA
Sources:
Climate Leadership and Community Protection Act — NY Renews
PRESS RELEASE | NYISO Announces New Solar Generation Record
Inflation Reduction Act: Solar Energy and Energy Storage Provisions Summary | SEIA
Credits:
Hosted and produced by Kiana Michaan
Edited and co-produced by Lucy Little
Noah Ginsburg: [00:00:00] You know, there's a social cost to carbon emissions. There's a social cost to putting particulate matter in the air and what that means for people's health. And if their kids have asthma and there are very real costs of burning fossil fuels, and there are very real costs associated with building out all of the large scale substations and transmission that we need to continue with a centralized system.
As we look to electrify. our transportation and to electrify our heating. So distributed energy resources like projects that are being built on rooftops or in the city or in areas where they're closer to the load where they're being consumed are just so valuable.
Kiana: Hello and welcome to Climate with Kiana, a podcast that explores topics of climate, energy, and sustainability through a framework of joy and justice. I'm your host, Kiana Michaan, a climate justice and clean energy advocate. This show brings you [00:01:00] conversations with passionate people working in climate, and together we explore the many exciting and intersectional solutions to one of the greatest challenges of our time.
So if you've ever felt overwhelmed by the climate crisis, These conversations are for you, whether you're already a climate nerd or just climate curious, join me each week in an exploration of climate justice solutions. Let's cultivate hope and joy and vision new possibilities together.
Welcome back. In today's episode, we are going to talk about solar policy in New York State. As a lifelong New Yorker and solar enthusiast. First, I feel lucky to live in a state with a robust solar industry. Having worked on solar projects across New York State, I've experienced some of the regional challenges facing the local solar industry.
New York has had some important climate and energy policy wins, and has a strong state energy agency and clean energy goals. But there still remain [00:02:00] many challenges for successful solar adoption across the state. Why is New York a unique state for solar policy? What are some of the complex challenges of solar in New York?
And how is the state leading in solar development? To explore these questions and more, I spoke with solar expert Noah Ginsburg. Here's our conversation.
Noah Ginsburg: So I'm Noah Ginsberg. I'm the executive director of the New York Solar Energy Industries Association. We're New York's solar energy trade group. Um, so, uh, our membership consists of 250 companies and nonprofit organizations who have a shared commitment to expanding access to solar power in New York State, um, and ensuring that we can build a lot of solar and energy storage, uh, quickly and ensure that those projects, uh, deliver bill savings and good jobs to lots of New Yorkers.
Kiana: I'm curious to hear a little bit more about your professional journey and your path in solar, what led you to work at NYSEIA, [00:03:00] and what really inspired you to work in solar and piqued your interest?
Noah Ginsburg: Sure. So I guess what I'll say is that when I started kind of my professional journey, I wasn't expecting to work in solar.
I actually started out at music school at Michigan State University. After my first year in school, I moved to New York City. And enrolled in an AmeriCorps national service program where I worked at a middle school here in the city. And when I went back to school at Hunter College at the City University of New York, I decided that I love music, but I didn't think it was what I had to contribute.
And I decided that I wanted to pursue renewable energy, both because I'm an environmentalist, but also because I'm a nerd and I love technology. I did an interdisciplinary degree focused on renewable energy, studying physics and environmental studies. I did solar installation training at Bronx Community College and did a number of internships, um, in the industry, both [00:04:00] environmental education internships and then also working.
Directly with, uh, startups in the clean energy space. I learned a ton in that internship and, uh, coming out of my undergraduate degree, I, I started working for the city of university of New York on clean energy policy in New York city. Um, and then in 2011, I moved out to California. To work for Sungevity, which at the time was the third biggest residential solar company in the country.
Also volunteering on solar installations with a non profit called Grid Alternatives. Then in 2016, I came back to New York City and worked for Solar One, a non profit organization to stand up a solar program to help get solar power to affordable housing in New York City and to low income renters. I was there for about seven years before Joining, uh, NICEA at, um, the beginning of 2023.
Kiana: I thought it was interesting that also you had a chance to study renewable energy in school, because I think, especially quite a few years [00:05:00] ago, there's, were less programs and opportunities available within renewable energy.
Noah Ginsburg: Absolutely. And I, I agree with everything you just said, and I think there are better opportunities and more programs available now than there were, you know, 15 plus years ago when I was.
Doing my undergraduate studies. And so, you know, I did kind of like a self designed major through the CUNY BA program. So it was kind of a, kind of, with, with help from an advisor who, um, Stephen Greenbaum, who was a physicist at Hunter College, um, kind of put together a program that was taking some classes at City College in engineering, some classes at Hunter College focusing on environmental studies and physics.
Some classes at Baruch, um, that were on economics and then up at Bronx community college, getting the hands on training from Hugo Perdenero was my teacher teaching me about kind of the nuts and bolts of how, uh, solar is actually installed.
Kiana: That's so great. And I think that's kind of a good segue into like how [00:06:00] solar is so interdisciplinary and you need knowledge from many different areas. And in the work you're doing now, you're dealing with so many different stakeholders. And while there's a general, you know, a general common goal, there's a lot of different varying interests and perspectives that you have to integrate to actually get things done and accomplished.
So I would love to talk about that a little bit and dive a little more into the work that NYSEIA is doing and why it's so important to bring all these Stakeholders in solar together here in New York State.
Noah Ginsburg: Yeah. Thanks for that, Kiana. I mean, so And I see his mission is to expand the use of solar power and storage in New York.
We do that by advocating for policies and programs that support rapid and equitable clean energy deployment. And, you know, among our membership, there's, there's a diversity of business models. There's a diversity kind of priorities and, you know, recognizing that this is not just one [00:07:00] segment. There are companies that focus on solar for homeowners.
There are companies that, uh, develop solar really just in one region of the state, whether it's the capital district or Western New York or long Island, uh, finger lakes region. And so New York is a big diverse state. So a lot of the work that we do is working with our membership and stakeholders to develop consensus.
And figure out what is the thing, what is the policy that we can move forward? That's going to grow the overall market and that's going to get us closer to where we need to go. I think having been in the nonprofit world for seven years before joining NYSEIA, I think a lot of, of a lot of this work as not just really about working with our member companies, uh, who have a business interest in growing the solar market, but also finding those areas of alignment.
With environmental justice groups and advocates, we have shared interests. We all want to see more clean energy getting built sooner, but maybe they have a different perspective that [00:08:00] if we are open to it can actually really strengthen our advocacy and support success of our member companies. And so that's something that, um, has been really interesting is just thinking about how we can both advocate for our members who have diverse perspectives and be open and collaborative with other stakeholders.
Kiana: It is important that solar development accounts for the interests of a variety of stakeholders and centers environmental justice. As we build the grid of the future, prioritizing environmental justice or EJ communities in the clean energy transition is critical.
EJ communities have been historically burdened with a disproportionate amount of pollution from energy production, and thus a just transition centers these communities at the forefront of the clean energy transition. Distributed energy resources, such as solar and storage, can provide a plethora of economic, resiliency, and environmental health benefits to these communities.
Noah, in his role at NYSEIA, is working to balance the different perspectives and interests of many [00:09:00] solar industry stakeholders. In order to support and further the deployment of solar energy across New York State.
Noah Ginsburg: Well, I have a lot of, I have a lot of fun doing it and it's, you know, hearing just diverse perspectives.
Um, I actually truthfully consider it like a position of privilege to be able to engage with all these stakeholders and then integrate that input and then to do our best as an association to put forward what we view as a consensus proposal that Integrates all of those voices and tries to work towards something that's going to ultimately work for everyone. So it's it's a lot of fun
Kiana: So you mentioned how some of the stakeholders are are very regional And therefore have specific concerns as pertains to their region The local regional policies have a massive impact on what an industry is able to accomplish, but i'd love to hear a little bit More from you about why you feel New York state is a unique state for solar policy.
And what are some of the landmark policies that we have here in the state to support [00:10:00] solar?
Noah Ginsburg: Yeah, that's a great question. And I mean, I, I should first lead with, you know, we're very fortunate in New York relative to a lot of other states. I work, I've had the opportunity to connect with the leaders of other state level trade associations.
And, you know, there are states where what we have in New York, they wouldn't even dream of. And so in New York state, I think we're, there are a couple of things that we're very fortunate about. We have ambitious state level clean energy goals. We also have a really well administered clean energy program at the state level through the New York State Energy Research and Development Authority or NYSERDA.
There are many states in the country that don't even have A nicer to speak of, but you get out of New York and people say, gosh, you have a state agency that's dedicated to clean energy. Like how amazing. And when I think about the policies that are really foundational to our clean energy transition, 2019 was a pivotal year for clean energy in New York state.
Um, there were two big laws that were passed. One was at the city level. Um, [00:11:00] and that was, uh, the city, city of New York passed. A package of bills called the Climate Mobilization Act, really the signature legislation in the city of New York, put a cap on carbon emissions from large buildings, but they also rolled out a solar or green roof mandate for new construction and major renovation projects.
And then shortly thereafter, the state of New York passed the Climate Leadership and Communities Protection Act. Which set really ambitious targets for our, basically our, our economy's decarbonization. So 70 percent renewable by 2030. It set a solar and energy storage target. Those I think really set the stage for a lot of the growth that we've seen over the last five years. New York also has a really great community solar market.
Kiana: The Climate Leadership and Communities Protection Act, also known as the CLCPA, is New York's landmark climate law and one of the most substantial state level climate and [00:12:00] environmental justice laws in the country. The law was passed in 2019, thanks to the immense efforts of grassroots environmental justice organizations across the state, and in particular the efforts of the New York Renews Coalition.
The CLCPA sets the state on a pathway to 70 percent renewable energy by 2030. then to 100 percent zero emission electricity by 2040 and off from fossil fuels by 2050 through legally binding emissions reduction standards. The law also mandates that 40 percent of clean energy investments goes directly to disadvantaged communities.
This win for environmental justice became the blueprint for federal policy, inspiring the Justice40 initiative in 2022. There still remains challenges ahead to ensure the successful implementation of this important legislation.
Noah Ginsburg: Last year we were the number one market for community solar in the country.
Community solar being a program that allows renters and folks that can't afford to put solar on their own rooftop to subscribe to [00:13:00] a solar project somewhere else in the utility territory and to receive those direct bill savings. And then maybe one other thing that's unique is that New York State is It's incredibly diverse.
If you just think about the population density, cost of land, the types of resources that are available. I mean, it's a big and diverse state. And so I think that that presents both challenges and opportunities to design smart programs that are going to, you know, get us to our clean energy goals and do it in a way that is ensuring that those benefits are equitably distributed.
Kiana: New York State ranks eighth in the U. S. for installed capacity of solar, with over 4. 7 gigawatts installed as of the end of 2022. By late 2023, the state has installed over 2 gigawatts of community solar, accounting for 61 percent of installed solar in the state. Prices have fallen 43 percent in the last 10 years, allowing for the rapidly growing solar market.
In 2022, New York ranked third nationally for solar jobs. There is enough solar installed to [00:14:00] power over 800, 000 homes. Solar in New York provides 4. 75 percent of the state's electricity generation. In May 2023, the state set a new record for solar generation, when during one hour of the day, 20 percent of the state's electricity demand was generated by solar.
Installed capacity of solar in New York is projected to grow over 8. 8 gigawatts in the next five years, with the state's solar market currently being valued at just over 10 billion. The CLCPA, as mentioned before, requires that 70 percent of state electricity must be generated by a renewable source by 2030, including 6 GW of distributed solar by 2025 and the expanded goal of 10 GW by 2030, as set by the 10 GW Distributed Solar Roadmap, which was approved by the Public Service Commission in 2022.
These goals necessitate a massive increase in installed capacity of solar over the years ahead, and a plethora of challenges remain in order to meet these [00:15:00] goals, particularly in regard to the successful implementation of the equity and environmental justice provisions of the CLCPA.
Noah Ginsburg: As an industry, we want solar and storage to be part of that solution of delivering direct bill savings and delivering benefits to low income communities and folks who've Shouldered the burdens of environmental injustice and our fossil fuel economy, uh, for a hundred years.
And so, yeah, I mean, to be in a state where we have that requirement that at least 35 percent of the benefits of clean energy accrue to low income folks, and that we target 40%, it really has set the stage for a lot of the Policies and programs that have been rolled out by NYSERDA, and it's really shaping how clean energy is being developed and deployed in our state, whether that's on the rooftops of affordable housing, whether that's programs that are specifically targeted towards bringing residential rooftop solar to low income neighborhoods, or whether that's community solar that's providing direct bill savings. To low income renters and folks who really [00:16:00] need the savings.
Kiana: So important. And I think when we're thinking about moving our energy systems, um, to a more distributed model, rather than centralized and decentralizing a lot of the power production, um, we're not doing it right. If we're not also increasing energy justice and energy democracy, then we're really just kind of recreating past systems of harm that have gotten us into.
This place where we are in terms of climate and needing an energy transition. So it's. It's really crucial to center those equity and justice aspects and it makes a massive difference to have that in the legislation in terms of those outcomes actually being more achievable. Yeah, so I wanted to talk a bit about what are some of the significant policy challenges in residential and C&I scale, commercial and industrial scale, solar.
Because I know there's, there's no shortage [00:17:00] of them and it keeps you busy. Um, but of course, all challenges also present an opportunity for, for solutions, which is great, but what are some of the, the significant challenges that, uh, are facing the industry?
Noah Ginsburg: You're right. There's no shortage of challenges. Um, but that's what makes it interesting in the residential space.
I think one of the biggest challenges is kind of more a macro economic challenge, which is just the rising cost of capital is making it more expensive for homeowners to. Uh, either purchase solar themselves or to lease solar. And so that's, that's been a big challenge. I think the Inflation Reduction Act and, and the, the new federal legislation that's bolstering the federal incentives does partially counteract that, um, which is great, but there's obviously I think more work to do to ensure that solar is affordable for homeowners.
So, you know, streamlined permitting would go a long way to reducing costs in New York City specifically. Right now, homeowners can't install energy storage systems. [00:18:00] With their solar, and you juxtapose that to other places in the country. I know we're a little bit different than Hawaii and Puerto Rico, but in those states, you're seeing more than 90 percent of solar projects, including batteries.
California is trending the same direction, and even in our region, we're seeing more and more inclusion of energy storage with solar projects that provide a lot of resiliency benefits. To homeowners, and, um, we would love for New Yorkers to have that opportunity as well. So that's, that's like one big challenge is, um, the fire code in New York City essentially prevents, uh, homeowners from, from installing battery backup.
Um, so we've got work to do there. And then on the commercial and industrial scale solar side, or as I would put it, maybe the community scale solar side, and I see it represents companies that develop. Residential rooftop and community scale projects, not really a utility scale, but for those projects, there are kind of three big challenges.
One is restrictive local laws and [00:19:00] challenges to site projects in some cases due to local opposition or misinformation about solar and the risks associated with solar and the benefits that solar can deliver to a community. Another is interconnection. New York state, like many states. Has an aging electric grid.
A lot of the infrastructure was designed and built 50 years ago, 100 years ago. Um, and that's the same system that we're using today and we're asking it to do something different, which is to integrate lots of distributed energy resources, which is, is both really exciting when you think about just kind of going from a centralized model where, um, electricity flows one way and money flows the other to a model where consumers are empowered.
To a model where there's a diversity of players that are generating power and generating clean power, generating power where it's consumed. So there's this really exciting transformation happening of the electric system, but we do have these physical constraints that [00:20:00] we're working through with, you know, where can we plug systems into the grid?
And can the utilities adapt quick enough to ensure that we keep making progress and hit our 2030 goals with 70 percent renewables, which is, you know, we have a long way to go to get there. So interconnection is another big challenge. And then the last one is incentives and compensation, which are directly related.
Like if we, if it's really challenging to find sites for projects, or it's really expensive to plug projects into the grid, then we need incentives to Solar projects. We need basically just more resources going in and an accurate and adequate compensation for the benefits of the clean energy projects are providing to the grid. So those are kind of like three big focus areas.
Kiana: Yes, I mean, I have direct experience with a lot of those challenges. You were mentioning some thoughts that came up for me as you were describing that is it's. The industry really is, I feel like, the whim of incentives. I mean, you see kind of [00:21:00] directly the correlation of many more projects being developed when incentives are available, and that dip when the incentives, um, run out.
And I would just love to see more. You know, consistent long lasting incentives because a lot of them are still very have to be renewed every few years. Um, and, you know, traditional energy production has been heavily incentivized for, for decades and decades with much more, I think, stability within incentive structures.
Um, I guess as we're recording this at the one year mark of the IRA, which is. That's right. Exciting because that's providing a massive amount of incentives. Something I've observed in, in terms of how directly attached the development cycle is to the amount of available incentives and the challenges when things, they do expire and there's, and they don't get renewed.
The Inflation Reduction Act, or IRA, passed in 2022 and extended the Investment Tax Credit, or [00:22:00] ITC, and also introduced the option of the Production Tax Credit, or PTC, for solar. Previously, the PTC was only available for wind projects and has been around since the early 90s. The ITC was enacted in 2006 and has been instrumental in the growth of the solar industry, which has grown at a factor of 200 times since the ITC's introduction.
It is a one time tax credit of up to 30 percent on solar project installation costs, received upon project completion. The PTC, on the other hand, is claimed annually over a 10 year credit period. Based on the amount of electricity produced each year applied to the current credit rate per kilowatt hour.
So depending on a project's size, upfront costs, and projected energy output, the most beneficial tax credit can vary. The ITC and PTC have adders available for projects that meet additional criteria. such as meeting prevailing wage requirements or being located in an environmental justice community. The IRA also includes tax credits to [00:23:00] incentivize the manufacturing of solar PV equipment in the U. S., which has already resulted in a large growth of solar manufacturing capacity in the last year. The IRA's extension and expansion of these tax credits has contributed to more long term certainty for solar projects and developers.
Noah Ginsburg: I think there are different ways to think about incentives and and compensation.
Now, I would argue that solar and storage projects that are being built today actually provide more benefit to the system than they're getting paid for. Um, and that's after accounting for incentives. If you just think about what it is we're doing, you know, there's a social cost to carbon emissions.
There's a social cost to putting particulate matter in the air and what that means for for for people's health. And if their kids have asthma and you know, there's like they're very real costs of burning fossil fuels and and there are very real costs associated with building out all of the large scale substations and transmission that we need to continue with a centralized system as we look to electrify our [00:24:00] transportation and to electrify our heating.
So distributed energy resources like projects that are being built on rooftops or um, In the city or in areas where they're closer to the load where they're being consumed are just so valuable and there have been a number of studies done and there's a study that was completed a couple years ago by Vote Solar and a group called Vibrant that found that the lowest cost pathway to achieving the state's clean energy goals is more distributed solar.
Kiana: This study, Decarbonizing New York Through Optimizing Distributed Resources, released in 2021 and was prepared by Vibrant Clean Energy on behalf of Vote Solar, Local Solar for All, and the Coalition for Community Solar Access. The study used modeling to explore the lowest cost pathways to deep decarbonization in line with the goals of the CLCPA in New York State.
It found that prioritizing distributed solar and storage on the electric grid can save New York over 28 [00:25:00] billion by 2050. Furthermore, it found that the lowest cost clean energy transition pathway includes 60 percent of rooftop solar and about 30 percent of battery storage in disadvantaged communities. This growth of local solar is projected to create over 160, 000 jobs by 2050. So prioritizing energy justice and equity is not only a moral imperative but is economically practical.
Noah Ginsburg: So even though, you know, one could zoom out and say, the lowest cost solar is going to be massive solar farms that are centralized and you can build those projects for cheaper.
That's true, but you have to transport that power a long distance to where it's consumed, and there's a lot of value in building systems where the power is needed. And so, again, we support large scale renewables, but we think that distributed renewables have a really important role to play. And that the compensation structures that we have today don't adequately compensate those, those resources for all the value that they provide.
Kiana: So [00:26:00] well said. I'm really glad you brought up all of those points in terms of the social cost of carbon is, is massive. And in the same way that with fossil fuel energy production, most of those harms are negatively externalized. We're not accounting for that, the full value, as you said, of distributed energy resources, which is in terms of health impacts with air quality, uh, in terms of building community resilience, when you were mentioning kind of that upfront costs between utility scale and distributed, that resilience pieces is massive, really important part of, I think why all these studies are showing that prior having, having a balance of distributed energy and more centralized energy production is The most resilient option.
I also wanted to touch on some other things you were saying about challenges, just in terms of interconnection being so, such a massive area for development to happen successfully, and how you mentioned utilities were built for a different, a [00:27:00] different system and the grid is changing. So I think, when I'm thinking about the, the combination of working with utilities, Um, and then permitting, which also is really local, right?
You have, you have jurisdictions where the permitting flows easily, and then you have towns that have completely banned solar. I've seen projects that don't go through because people don't like the way it looks on a building, you know, just all sorts of kind of really interesting reasons projects get, get blocked or just really outdated permitting processes that, um, aren't moving fast enough for us to reach the clean energy targets we have.
Noah Ginsburg: Well, yeah. So I think like. With the impact of restrictive local laws where communities, in some cases, are functionally banning solar installation, you know, I think that there are a couple of different things at play. One is, to me, it highlights the need for kind of more outreach and education. I think some communities and community leaders, particularly in small towns, like they genuinely don't know a lot about the technology.[00:28:00]
You know, it's possible they haven't been provided with good, accurate information about how solar works, about How batteries work. And so, you know, if there's, if they don't have accurate information, then, you know, it's hard to make smart policies and decisions. I think outreach and education is critical.
Something else I'll say is that I think it's important that we structure policies and programs to ensure that communities who host clean energy projects get meaningful benefits for it. You know, these projects, Thanks. Yes, they achieve a state policy objective. Yes, they help us to combat climate change, and that's critically important.
But also, just being real, you know, for a community that was historically, you know, primarily agricultural, to have solar farms going in, it really is a change in land use. And I think it's important that both with that education that's happening, That programs are designed to ensure that real benefits accrue to those communities who are hosting projects.
Then the last thing I'll say on this is that I think that provided that we [00:29:00] do the proper outreach and education, provided that we ensure that these projects do benefit the communities that are hosting projects, I think at that point, it's also really important that. We have a pathway to get these projects permitted and built, you know, the state actually for large scale renewables created the office of renewable energy siting where projects above 25 megawatts or above 20 megawatts in some cases can go through state level permitting, there's no similar state level process for small scale community scale renewables.
I don't know that we necessarily even want to advocate for that. But we do want to advocate for projects to have a path forward. You know, if there's a landowner that wants to put solar on their land. And their town is saying no and they think it's unreasonable. They should have some recourse or some path to pursue.
Kiana: From challenges with permitting approvals to utility billing credits, owners of solar, members of community solar, and other solar beneficiaries need resources and pathways to address challenges that can potentially occur within the solar development process. [00:30:00] NYSEIA is working on policy based solutions to protect the interests of solar stakeholders and support a more smooth deployment of distributed solar and storage.
Among the challenges that distributed energy resources are facing is the need for less complex and more timely interconnection processes. Solar and storage projects seeking to interconnect can often experience long queues or insurmountable grid upgrade costs. These hurdles can lead to long project delays and sometimes even result in the cancellation of solar and storage projects.
Noah Ginsburg: And on, on interconnection for this issue, I think that there is, you know, a literal challenge, which is How can we adapt our electric infrastructure to accommodate more distributed energy resources and how can we do it, you know, quickly, something that as an industry we're advocating for. Is something called flexible interconnection.
And the way that I would describe this is working not just hard, but working smart too. And what I [00:31:00] mean by that is today, we have a very conservative approach to a utility planning and grid upgrades where we're requiring basically solar projects to pay for these massive grid upgrades, to account for a relatively unlikely scenario where the solar project is exporting at its maximum capacity, and there's almost no power consumption happening in that, in that locality, and that's a really rare circumstance, um, and it's a circumstance that can be managed with software and smart, smart grid controls, and so flexible interconnection would say, let's not just overbuild hardware, let's actually use software to make sure that we're optimizing our use of, of the grid that we have today.
So we can plug more renewables into the grid today. We can build more clean energy sooner. And yes, we're going to upgrade the grid for electrification, um, and more renewables, but the timescale is off. We, we could be building more clean energy today, if not for the, the long lead times and, um, long [00:32:00] timelines associated with the grid upgrades.
So those are a couple of the solutions that we're going to be advancing, you know, over the next years. I don't think these aren't overnight things. These are more conceptual things that we're trying to address as an industry.
Kiana: I wanted to ask you about some of the approaches you take in your work to implementing solutions to address these, these many, uh, challenges and barriers that.
Can create project delays, um, in the adoption of solar. So, yeah, what are some of the approaches you've touched on it a little bit that, that NYSEIA takes? Do you see better pathways being forged to pathways being forged that lead to better communication and therefore outcomes with so many stakeholders?
Such as all the authorities having jurisdictions, all these different local regulatory bodies, state level, regulatory bodies, utilities, solar developers, communities, so many stakeholders, how can we communicate better?
Noah Ginsburg: You know, the approach that, that I've [00:33:00] taken in this role thus far is trying to get a lot of input and to get clarity on our outcomes first.
Like what does success, what are the key challenges? And what does success look like and then honing in on like a handful of goals that for our association, which again is really for the distributed solar industry in the state of New York and then and then going from there and and and engaging with with other key stakeholders, whether that's state agencies, whether that's legislators, whether that's environmental justice groups.
Um, whether it's housing groups, engaging with others to just understand, you know, what are the areas of alignment and what are the areas of difference and acknowledging that this is going to be an iterative approach. Um, and that's okay. We're going to go forward with what we think the best solution is today.
We're going to learn more. We're going to adapt and, and keep things moving forward. And I think that that's, um, you know, one thing that I think has been, uh, helpful in moving [00:34:00] things forward is just. Um, keeping an open mind and, uh, and, and being flexible, um, and, and going into, um, going into this work, acknowledging that there's more than one way to get there.
Um, and sometimes, sometimes the way that we thought of isn't going to be, isn't either politically feasible or isn't, uh, isn't going to be. The winning solution based on the kind of the broader coalition that we need to build and, and who we need to get on board with, with a proposal. So, um, yeah. And in terms of like stakeholder engagement, I think it's, it's about just reaching out, um, opening lines of communication, um, listening and, uh, not going in, you know, like a steamroller trying to just advance our priorities, but also just genuinely listening and hearing what, what these other groups priorities are and figuring out like where there's alignment.
Kiana: There are many important [00:35:00] considerations in the solar development process. Distributed solar has far reaching impacts on the local grid and technical, economic, social, environmental, equity, and policy impacts. There is a need for continued creative problem solving and collaboration between stakeholders as the solar industry continues to grow and evolve at a fast pace in the coming years.
I asked Noah to share what gives him hope for the future of solar and how he is envisioning the future of the grid in New York State.
Noah Ginsburg: What gives me hope is all the brilliant people that I have the privilege of working with every day, um, whether that's clean energy business leaders, um, that's our colleagues who work in city and state government, um, or folks in the nonprofit sector, um, who are approaching this work more from a social justice perspective.
There are just so many brilliant minds. That are trying to answer the question, how can we rapidly and equitably [00:36:00] transition from fossil fuels to clean energy? Um, and I, and I think that we have at least in New York state and New York city, I think we have the right people in the right places and we just need to push.
And so, um, that that's, what's, what's exciting to me is I think that, um, you know, we, and, and, and with the inflation reduction act, which, as you mentioned, you know, we're on the one year anniversary of that. I mean, there's just, we have wind in our sails. Um, and we have, uh, this is the first time where we've had alignment between federal, state and local, um, clean energy leadership and incentives and programs.
And, um, so, you know, we're going to get there. Um, and I, and I have a lot of optimism and hope and, um, and the, I guess something else that, that, um, I find really hopeful is that, um, the national solar job census came out last month. Um, and New York state added 1000 solar jobs. In in 2021. Um, and we're continuing to grow as an industry.
More [00:37:00] and more brilliant minds are coming into this sector. Um, and I think, you know, it's one of those things where it's like a snowball going down a hill. It gets bigger and it builds momentum. And, you know, I think that we're at that tipping point where, um, you know, it's not a question of. If we're transitioning to clean energy, it's how quickly are we going to do it and how are we going to make sure that it is most beneficial to the broadest group of New Yorkers and Americans as possible.
Kiana: I agree. I'm also very excited to both be a part of and witness how the energy transition continues to unfold in the next few years. I think we're going to see. Massive shifts in the right direction. It is an exciting time to be working in solar and clean energy, and to witness how the energy transition will continue to unfold over the years ahead.
There is much to be accomplished to ensure a decarbonized future. Final question. What inspires you in your [00:38:00] work, and what brings you joy?
Noah Ginsburg: It's a little cliche, but I will say I get a lot of inspiration and joy from my kids. And when I think about this, this work and the, why are we doing this? I mean, it, it really is about the next generation and the one after that.
And, and making sure that we're creating the world that, that we want our kids and grandkids to live in. And so that to me is like a major kind of inspiration for me in the work. And it brings me a lot of joy too. And I think that there there's along the way there are setbacks. Uh, but there are also celebrations and, you know, every time someone gets a job in clean energy, every time that someone signs up for community solar and lowers their bill, every time that someone puts solar on their rooftop, I think it just makes a difference.
That is a huge victory and something worth celebrating and, you know, that to me is a really important piece of this that we, you know, not despair and not think, gosh, we don't have enough time and be, you know, catastrophist about it. I think we need to have a sense of urgency, but also be ready to celebrate the victories and, and [00:39:00] enjoy the work that we're doing to get us there faster.
Kiana: Thank you for listening to this episode with Noah Ginsburg. If you are interested in learning more about solar in New York, please explore the resources in the show notes and stay tuned for future episodes. See you next week for another episode, and until then, be well and be joyous. Thank you for listening.
Climate with Kiana is hosted and produced by me, Kiana Michaan. This episode was co-produced and edited by Lucy Little. Theme Music by Colette Michaan. This podcast is recorded and produced in New York City on unceeded Munsee Lenape land. If you enjoyed the episode, please share it with a friend, leave a comment and subscribe anywhere you listen to podcasts.
For more information about the guests and topics discussed, please visit climatewithkiana. com.[00:40:00]